D Vance denies that Trump’s tariffs would be a tax on Americans
Speaker 1 (00:00):Senator JD Vance, welcome back to Meet the Press.
JD Vance (00:02):Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:03):Thank you for having us here in Cincinnati. Let’s start off with the Democratic National Convention.
JD Vance (00:09):Sure.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Some of what we heard this past week, Vice President Kamala Harris in making her case said that the tariff plans that Donald Trump is proposing will hurt the middle class. Here’s what she said specifically quote, “He intends to enact what in effect is a national sales tax, call it a Trump tax that would raise prices on middle-class families by almost $4,000 a year.” Now, the estimates vary, but how do you respond to that charge that Trump’s tariffs would hurt the middle class?
JD Vance (00:37):
If you step back a little bit, Kristen, there’s this whole thing that Kamala Harris did at the convention where she made a bunch of claims about what would happen and not enough actually reflection on what already happened because Donald Trump was already President. He used tariffs to bring manufacturing jobs back to our country, and I think he’ll do it again, and he did it while keeping prices extremely low because if you go back to the Trump presidency, we had 12,000 factories that were built during Donald Trump’s presidency. Inflation never really ticked above 2% his entire administration. In fact, it was around one and a half percent most of the time that he was President, so when Kamala Harris says, if we do the thing that Trump already did, it’s going to be way worse than it was last time, I just don’t think that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Well, let’s talk about Trump’s record during his first term. He didn’t pose rounds of tariffs and it cost Americans nearly eighty-billion dollars in new taxes. Do you acknowledge that imposing more tariffs will ultimately cost consumers?
JD Vance (01:34):
Well, what it really does is it penalizes importers from bringing goods outside the country into the country, and I think that’s just a necessary thing. We know that China and a number of other countries are using effectively slave labor to undercut the wages of American workers. Donald Trump thinks that has to stop. And again, what Kamala Harris is saying, Kristen, is that if you do this, you’re somehow going to cause skyrocketing inflation. In reality, Donald Trump already did it. He brought a lot of jobs back and it didn’t cause inflation.
Speaker 1 (01:59):But it caused consumers to pay more. They paid more in taxes, eighty-billion dollars worth. Do you acknowledge that consumers ultimately will pay more if there are more tariffs than those?
JD Vance (02:10):Economists-
Speaker 1 (02:11):Do you just acknowledge that?
JD Vance (02:12):
No, I don’t Kristen because I think economists really disagree about the effects of tariffs because there can be a dynamic effect, so what some economists will say is what you just said, that it will actually raise costs for consumers. But what other people say, and I think the record supports what this other view, is that it causes this dynamic effect where more jobs come into the country. Anything that you lose on the tariff from the perspective of the consumer, you gain in higher wages, so you’re ultimately much better off. You have more take-home pay, you have better jobs, and also we have more reliance. Because one of the things we learned during COVID, I don’t by the way blame Democrats for this, but one of the things we learned during COVID, Kristen, is that if our supply chains are really brittle, if we depend on the Chinese to make too much of our stuff, then prices can skyrocket at a time of crisis. The economists who say that tariffs are bad, they don’t take that into account, and we’ve all learned it the hard way.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And it is economists across the board really, the Wall Street Journal says, economic data showed that Donald Trump’s trade war with China did not achieve its objectives of reversing the declines in US manufacturing or reshoring factory jobs. I hear what you’re saying. It’s a complicated picture, but just on that bottom line point, you can’t guarantee that Americans won’t wind up paying a penny more, can you?
JD Vance (03:25):
Well, I think that what you can guarantee is that if you don’t bring more manufacturing jobs back into this country, you don’t make our supply chains more stable, you’re going to cause higher prices over the long term. I think that is what is absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (03:37):But do you acknowledge they could wind up paying more?
JD Vance (03:40):
What I acknowledge Kristen is that unless we bring more manufacturing jobs back to this country, we are going to end up paying more in the long term. Remember the whole promise, now, again, this was a bipartisan thing, my own party was as wrong about it as Democrats were, and Donald Trump was right about it. What they said is that if you shipped all of our manufacturing to East Asia and to Mexico, Americans would pay lower prices. Well, here we are now and Americans are paying higher prices. And just one more thing on this, Kristen, because it’s really important to go at what Kamala Harris actually sent her convention speech. She says that she wants to stand up to China on behalf of American workers. If you’re not willing to impose tariffs on companies that are manufacturing in China using slave labor in China, you’re not standing up to the Chinese and Americans are really going to suffer.
Speaker 1 (04:23):And on pricing and prices right now, inflation obviously at its lowest level since 2021, but let’s move on. Robert F. Kennedy, the big news yesterday.
JD Vance (04:33):Very big news.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
He suspended his campaign, announced he’s endorsing Donald Trump. He is also known as someone who has blamed vaccines for autism, antidepressants for school shootings, and recently said quote, “He won’t take sides on what happened on 9/11.” Do you have any hesitation about accepting his endorsement?
JD Vance (04:53):
No, Kristen, I don’t because we’re going to disagree on issues. There are things that Robert Kennedy has said that I disagree with. I’m sure there are things that he said or that I’ve said, excuse me, that he’s going to disagree with, but I think what his endorsement represents is that Donald J. Trump’s Republican Party is a big tent party. I was raised by two grandparents who are classic blue dog democrats. They believed in having a border. They believed that you shouldn’t have censorship in the United States of America. They believed in common sense economic policies. They may have disagreed with Donald Trump about tax policy, but they believed in some fundamental American values. And I think what RFK’s endorsement really shows is that the Kennedy Democrats are actually more at home in the Republican Party of Donald Trump. And unfortunately, Kamala Harris’s party, higher prices, doing nothing to fight back against the Chinese to say nothing of a wide open border that is not JFK’s Democratic Party, it’s not RFK’s Democratic Party. We’re thrilled to have the Kennedy Democrats where they belong.
Speaker 1 (05:45):Well, and some in the Kennedy family have stepped forward to say that they sharply disagree with this endorsement, but let’s just go back very quickly. He says he isn’t taking sides on 9/11. Do you agree with that statement?
JD Vance (05:55):
Well, of course I don’t agree with that Kristen. Now, to be clear, I don’t know what RFK actually said there. Maybe there was additional context. Of course, you actually have to see what people say before you agree or disagree with it. I certainly have taken sides in 9/11. I’m the pro-America side. I don’t think that we should have been attacked, and I certainly think hitting back against the terrorists was justified. I don’t know what RFK said there, but what I do know is that RFK said a lot of very interesting and important things, that the Democratic Party has become too pro-censorship, that the Democratic Party, especially in the wake of COVID, became really anti-freedom and anti-child. You had Democrats saying that we should be masking toddlers in their schools even though we knew it caused developmental disabilities. I agree with RFK that that was crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:37):Well, to be fair, there was a lot of information that scientists were grappling with as it came in, and masks were perceived to stop the spread of the disease. Let’s move on though.
JD Vance (06:46):
Totally fair. But the one thing before we move on that I would say on that is there were important leaders. Donald Trump was among them, RFK was among them, who were saying some of this stuff is crazy, and if we had listened to them, I think our kids would’ve been much better off in the wake of the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (06:59):Scientists did show that masks helped to stop the spread of the disease. Let’s talk about another big issue.
JD Vance (07:03):
But is caused developmental issues for toddlers. We have to be able to balance this stuff, and I think the way that RFK struck that balance was much smarter, unfortunately than the way that Kamala Harris did.
Speaker 1 (07:13):Let’s talk about another big issue that was talked about at the Democratic National Convention, it’s being talked about on the campaign trail, abortion.
JD Vance (07:21):Sure.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Democrats made the case this week and beyond this week that Donald Trump, if elected, will impose a federal ban on abortion if he wins. Now, Donald Trump says he won’t, but can you commit, Senator, sitting right here with me today that if you and Donald Trump are elected, that you will not impose a federal ban on abortion?
JD Vance (07:41):
I can absolutely commit that, Kristen, and Donald Trump has been as clear about that as possible. I think it’s important to step back and say, what has Donald Trump actually said on the abortion question, and how is it different from what Kamala Harris and the Democrats have said? Donald Trump wants to end this cultural war over this particular topic. Excuse me. If California wants to have a different abortion policy from Ohio then Ohio has to respect California and California has to respect Ohio. Donald Trump’s view is that we want the individual states and their individual cultures and their unique political sensibilities to make these decisions because we don’t want to have a nonstop federal conflict over this issue. The federal government ought to be focused on getting food prices down and getting housing prices down, issues of course, where Kamala Harris has been a total disaster. I think Donald Trump is right. We want the federal government to focus on these big economic and immigration questions, let the states figure out their own abortion policy.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Let me just follow up with you a little bit on that point because I’ve been talking to Republicans, including Senator Lindsey Graham just last week who’ve made it very clear that if Donald Trump is elected, if you are elected, they will continue to press this point. Senator Graham said to me, “I’m going to keep saying that there should be a federal ban.” If such a piece of legislation landed on Donald Trump’s desk, would he veto it?
JD Vance (08:58):Well, I think it’d be very clear he would not support it, he said that explicitly.
Speaker 1 (09:00):Would he vet it?
JD Vance (09:01):Yeah, if you’re not supporting it as the President of the United States, you fundamentally have to veto it.
Speaker 1 (09:04):He would veto a federal abortion ban?
JD Vance (09:06):I think he would. He said that explicitly that he would and again Lindsey-
Speaker 1 (09:09):I don’t think he’s ever said explicitly he would. He said that to you?
JD Vance (09:12):Lindsey Graham, Kristen. I would be surprised. Again, I need to see the context on what Lindsey Graham said, because Lindsey Graham himself has not advocated a federal abortion ban. Lindsey Graham has advocated-
Speaker 1 (09:23):15-week federal abortion ban.
JD Vance (09:24):
… a federal minimum standard. Now, to be clear, that is not Donald Trump’s view. Donald Trump disagrees with Lindsey Graham on this, but no Republican, at least no Republican with any reasonable power is saying that we should have a complete national abortion ban. I haven’t heard that from any of my colleagues. And to be clear, Donald Trump, I think has staked his position and made it very explicit, he wants this to be a state decision. States are going to make this determination themselves.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
All right, let’s talk about women voters more broadly. The Census Bureau estimates there are 22 million women between the ages of 20 and 40 who for whatever reason do not have children. What do you say to those women who hear some of your comments, including the childless cat lady comments, which you’ve been asked about, but who feel as though you won’t represent them?
JD Vance (10:09):
Well, I’d say, first of all, I will represent you. I want to be the Vice President for the whole country, and I want to represent everybody. And yes, I made a sarcastic comment years ago that I think that a lot of Democrats have willfully misinterpreted. But what I’ve simply said is that I think that it’s really a profound change that’s happened in our country where we become anti-family, and I would like to change that. And I think if you talk to young women, whether they have children or don’t want to have children, what you consistently hear is that a lot of young women feel like they don’t have options. I saw this with my own wife who’s a working mother, who’s a very, very accomplished litigator. She has three beautiful kids and always felt like she was having to balance being a good mom with being the kind of litigator that she wanted to be. I just want women to have more choices. I’ve seen that very personally in my own family, and I think it’s something that is broken about our country.
Speaker 1 (10:56):Let me zoom out a little bit then.
JD Vance (10:58):Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:58):You’re calling it a sarcastic comment.
JD Vance (11:00):Sure.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
And yet some women, and you got the feedback in real time, felt like it was a gut punch to them personally. Do you regret making that comment?
JD Vance (11:10):Look, I regret certainly that a lot of people took it the wrong way, and I certainly regret that the DNC and Kamala Harris lied about it.
Speaker 1 (11:18):But do you regret what you said, Senator?
JD Vance (11:19):
Look, Kristen, I’m going to say things from time to time that people would disagree with. I’m a real person. I’m going to make jokes. I’m going to say things sarcastically, and I think that what’s important is that we focus on the policy. There are certainly going to be things that I say if I’m elected Vice President, people are going to say, “Well, I wish he had said that differently.” I think it’s most important to actually be the person I actually am, and to say those sarcastic comments were made in the service of a real substantive point. This country has become too anti-family, it’s too expensive to afford a house. It’s too expensive to afford groceries. Donald Trump and I want to change that. And unless we get better leadership, we’re not going to.
Speaker 1 (11:55):But again, just very quickly, given that people have told you directly have spoken out, have said that they were offended, they were hurt by those comments, do you wish you never made those childless cat lady comments?
JD Vance (12:06):I think that it’s much more important for me to just be a normal human being who sometimes says things-
Speaker 1 (12:10):No regrets?
JD Vance (12:11):
… that people disagree with. I have a lot of regrets, Kristen, but making a joke three years ago is not in the top 10 of the list.
Speaker 1 (12:16):All right, another big topic in this race is immigration. There has been a lot of discussion about Donald Trump’s plans for mass deportation.
JD Vance (12:24):Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
According to one estimate, more than 11 million US citizens live in households with mixed immigration status, including more than five million children. If you and former President Trump were elected, would you separate families as a part of your mass deportation effort?
JD Vance (12:41):Well, we have to start with the foundational issue here, which is we have 25 million illegal aliens in this country right now because Kamala Harris has refused to do her job.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Very quickly, DHS says it’s much lower, it’s closer to eight million.
JD Vance (12:52):
I think there are-
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Where do you get the 25 million from?
JD Vance (12:55):
I think the 25 million are the people that should have been deported that maybe weren’t deported. Plus you had another 12 to 15 million that have come in since Kamala Harris. Whatever the number is-
Speaker 1 (13:03):
DHS disputes that number for the record. They say it’s closer to eight to 10 million, but let’s continue.
JD Vance (13:06):
But I think there are reasons to think that DHS is underestimating. Whatever the real number is, it’s way too high. It’s millions upon millions of illegal immigrants that have come in just since Kamala Harris became the border czar a few years ago. The first thing-
Speaker 1 (13:19):
She was was put in charge of the root causes of migration. Go ahead.
JD Vance (13:19):
Well, the root causes of migration, I would say, Kristen, is that Kamala Harris refused to do her job as borders are. And let’s just start there. I want to answer your question, but I think it’s important to sequence this in the right way. If you want to get control of the illegal immigration problem, you have to stop the bleeding. You have to stop so many people from coming here illegally in the first place, and that means undoing everything that Kamala Harris did practically on day one of the administration. You have to reimpose deportations. You have to stop catch and release, stop bringing asylum to every single person who comes in here and says that they need asylum and stop granting mass parole. These policies are why we have the immigration crisis that we have. I think focus on fixing the problem, before we even fix the problem, we’ve got to stop the problem from getting worse.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
And as you know, President Biden passed a series of executive actions and illegal border crossings are now at their lowest levels in about five years, so much so that Greg Abbott is no longer busing people to other cities. But let me ask you-
JD Vance (14:12):No, no, no, this is-
Speaker 1 (14:12):… this fundamental question, Senator-
JD Vance (14:13):Please.
Speaker 1 (14:14):… fundamental question. Will families be separated under your mass deportation?
JD Vance (14:19):
And again, because you made a point here, I do want to answer this question about families and about deportations, but you made this point that border crossings are lower. Border crossings at the southern border are lower because the Harris administration is sending more immigrants through the ports of entry, so instead of coming through the southern border, they’re not being flown at taxpayer expense to the ports of entry all over our country. The number of illegal crossings, Kristen, this is a really important point, they’re not any lower. They’re just shuffling how the people are coming into the country in the first place, and this is very important about the deportations.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
They’re able to process them more efficiently, but Greg Abbott’s not sending them to other states.
JD Vance (14:54):But I don’t… Kristen, I don’t want borders are who makes it more efficient for illegal immigrants to come into this country. That’s why we have the problem that we have.
Speaker 1 (15:01):Senator to this question, because so many people want to know the answer to this. Will families be separated under your mass deportation policy?
JD Vance (15:08):I think that families are currently being separated, and you’re certainly going to have to deport some people in this country. Now, I think you start with-
Speaker 1 (15:14):That’s a yes?
JD Vance (15:15):
No, I think you start with the most violent criminals in our country, those people need to deported. That’s where you focus federal resources. I think you of course have a number of children who are currently living with drug cartel members, not actually their families. We need to of course find their families and get them back to their families. But it’s very interesting here because what Kamala Harris says is that Donald Trump wants to separate families. Kamala Harris’s policies have led to thousands upon thousands of migrant children living with sex traffickers and drug cartels. That is the consequence of her policies. Some of them were even missing.
Speaker 1 (15:49):But there’s not a policy to separate families. There’s not a policy to separate families. The question is-
JD Vance (15:52):If you know that your policies will lead to family separation, you don’t get to claim… Kristen, this is important.
Speaker 1 (15:56):Wait, hold on.
JD Vance (15:57):Kamala Harris cannot claim that she doesn’t know that her policies are leading to family separation. They are, and everybody knows it, and she has to take responsibility for that. That’s what real leadership is.
Speaker 1 (16:07):There are some families who have been separated, as you say, some because their parents are criminals, but of course under the Trump administration, there was a zero tolerance policy, which is an actual policy. But let’s move on-
JD Vance (16:17):No, no, please.
Speaker 1 (16:19):… because we’re running out of time.
JD Vance (16:20):
Can I just make this point, Kristen? This is so important.
Speaker 1 (16:20):We are running out of time.
JD Vance (16:21):
There was a zero… I’ll give you more time. There was a zero tolerance policy during the Trump administration, and that led to less family separation than under Kamala Harris’s border policies. That’s what’s so striking about this? Actually enforcing our border is the most humane thing for children and certainly for American citizens.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
But I don’t hear you denying that families will be separated. Let’s move on to something that Donald Trump had said in North Carolina and yet again Friday night. He said, quote, “Our primary focus is not to get out the vote. It’s to make sure they don’t cheat because we have all the votes you need. You can see it.” Why is Donald Trump casting doubt on the election before it’s even happened?
JD Vance (17:02):I don’t think that’s what Donald Trump is doing but I-
Speaker 1 (17:04):Well, that’s what he’s doing. That’s what he says here, “We need to make sure they don’t cheat.”
JD Vance (17:07):
I think that what he’s saying is that we want to pursue a set of policies in the Republican Party that make it easier for every legal ballot to be cast and counted, but make it harder for illegally cast ballots to be counted. Now, we can disagree about how many of those there are, whether there are a few hundred, a few thousand, maybe more. But just in the last week, okay, so just in the last week, once in Arizona and once in Pennsylvania, there were major court wins that make our ballot process more secure and more effective. I think that’s what Donald Trump is talking about is we have to pursue sometimes through litigation, sometimes through better policy at the state or national level, a set of rules that make sure every ballot is legally counted.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Well, it’s very different from your message, which is you said, and I’ll quote you back to yourself, “We have to work as hard as possible to persuade Americans to vote for us.” Are you on the same page as Donald Trump? Because again, he seems to be casting doubt on the results of the election before it’s even happened.
JD Vance (18:04):
Of course, we’re on the same page, Kristen. We talk all the time, and I guarantee you, if you sat here and said, “Mr. President Donald Trump, do you believe that your campaign needs to persuade voters as much as possible?” Of course he’s going to say yes. That’s not inconsistent with thinking that we need to pursue a set of approaches that make sure legal ballots get counted, illegal ballots don’t get counted.
Speaker 1 (18:29):Do you have faith that the 2024 election will be free and fair?
JD Vance (18:29):
I do Kristen. I do think it’s going to be free and fair, and we’re going to do everything that we can to make sure that happens. We’re going to pursue every pathway to make sure, again, legal ballots get counted. But I feel very good about where we are. I think we’re going to win this race, and I think we’re going to win it in a very good election.
Speaker 1 (18:43):All right, Senator JD Vance-
JD Vance (18:45):Thanks Kristen.
Speaker 1 (18:45):… thank you so much for your time this afternoon.
JD Vance (18:47):Likewise.
Speaker 1 (18:48):Really appreciate it. Thank you.
JD Vance (18:49):Yep.
Speaker 3 (18:50):Thanks for watching. Stay updated about breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or follow us on social media.