President Joe Biden (47:30):
After I got law school, we didn’t have any money to buy a home or anything. So we had this real estate agent. We were looking for rentals. Her husband, she had managed this pool called the Country Swimming Club, which was a private swimming club in Suburban in a nice part of town that a number of judges put together because when they’d be up in the summer working in Wilmington, they had a place to go. And it was a very modest thing, a nice pool, and had a little bath house and the rest, and it had a little gate house on it. And so she worked out that I could live in that gate house for free if I’d managed the pool. I was practicing law, but as long as I hired everybody, kept it going. And so when they ran against me, they said, “Why the hell would you vote for Biden? All he’s ever been in his whole life as a lifeguard.”
Howard (48:23):They threw it in your face.
President Joe Biden (48:24):Well, it was a good, I don’t blame him.
Howard (48:26):Yeah. No, it’s crazy.
President Joe Biden (48:26):It was a good.
Howard (48:28):It is. What a crazy career you’ve had, I mean.
President Joe Biden (48:32):Well, it’s not like there’re any straight line to it. It’s not like I started off to do that. It’s like the… Anyway.
Howard (48:40):Yeah, that’s pretty amazing. So now let me get back to some romance if you don’t mind.
President Joe Biden (48:45):Sure. Okay.
Howard (48:46):So I don’t know how long it takes you before you start dating, but when you lost your wife, you were devastated.
President Joe Biden (48:52):About five years.
Howard (48:53):Five years.
President Joe Biden (48:53):Well, I had gone out other times, but I basically gave up going out because it got complicated. And I guess Jill and I went out two and a half, three years after I’d lost.
Howard (49:11):Did you feel like you were betraying your first wife?
President Joe Biden (49:14):
No. No. It wasn’t that. I just didn’t feel, it became, it was like a celebrity issue. I go out and Biden’s gone, and when I did go out, we’d make sure the press didn’t know I was going out. For example, the first time Jill and I went out, we went to Philadelphia to see a movie. And I didn’t like the movie, The Man and a Woman. It was a-
Howard (49:37):Oh, I remember that movie, Man and a Woman.
President Joe Biden (49:39):
Went up to Philly because no one in Philly you couldn’t go to locally. So anyway, it was, but I just got really, really lucky and Jill is incredible.
Howard (49:52):It’s like sort of what happened with your first wife, when you know you know, you were like, “I think I’m going to marry this.” Your brother found a picture of her, or he showed you a picture?
President Joe Biden (50:00):
The Pond Company did a lot of business in Washington and the Wilmington Airport, they convinced an airline to come and fly once a day back and forth commercially. So I went down and they had this big life-size banner in there of advertising that there… And the woman in the banner standing there was Jill. And turns out she had a friend in Delaware who asked her if he could take a picture of her and he. And I remember going home and saying, “I saw a beautiful woman.” Isn’t that weird?
Howard (50:35):Yeah.
President Joe Biden (50:36):And it turns out the blind date was with that woman.
Howard (50:40):How strange is that?
President Joe Biden (50:41):It’s fate.
Howard (50:42):It’s fate. And you again pretty much knew right away.
President Joe Biden (50:46):I did. I really did.
Howard (50:48):
But here’s something I heard about your relationship with your wife that blew me away. So you meet her, you go out with her, you find yourself, I want her to be my girlfriend, I want her to be exclusive with me. And you tell her this and she says, “Well, I have a date with another guy.”
President Joe Biden (51:05):That’s right.
Howard (51:07):
It’s the best. She goes, “I have a date with another guy. And I would feel dishonest not going out with him.” And that’s got to be the worst feeling in the world when you’re falling in love with someone and they’re going out on a date with another guy.
President Joe Biden (51:15):Actually, it was the second time, it was within three days of taking her out the first time.
Howard (51:21):She said, “No, I can’t skip this date that I have with this guy.”
President Joe Biden (51:24):Well, she did.
Howard (51:25):She did? Good for you. But it was pretty much love at first sight again, right? I mean.
President Joe Biden (51:31):
Well, for me it really was. I mean, I just liked her. We have the same family values. I got to meet her family. Her dad was a wonderful guy. She has four. I tell every man, you should marry into a family with five or more sisters, and she’s the oldest of five because one of them will always love you, not the same one. One of them will always stick up for you.
Howard (51:50):That’s good.
President Joe Biden (51:51):
But I got to meet them. I got to meet her grandparents. They were originally from South Jersey, Hamilton, New Jersey. Her dad ended up being the president of a small Savings and Loan in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. But they were just wonderful people.
Howard (52:05):
Why did you have to propose so many times? What was that all about?
President Joe Biden (52:09):
Well, I don’t know. I mean, I know why. It turns out I asked Jill five times to marry me. And so I was down trying to get to see Nelson Mandela with the Black Caucus in South Africa. And I came home and I got off the plane commercially in Philadelphia, drove straight to her apartment in Wilmington, knocked and she said, “Oh, Joe, come on in.” And I said, “No, no.” I said, “Look, you got my [inaudible 00:52:36].” I said, “I’m going to ask you one more time, and I promise just one more time.”
Howard (52:40):Because you had asked five times in two years?
President Joe Biden (52:42):I asked four times. Four times.
Howard (52:43):Four times. Okay.
President Joe Biden (52:44):One more time, I said, “You don’t have to tell me when, but if, will you marry me?” And she went like, “Okay.”
Howard (52:53):Great.
President Joe Biden (52:54):
And my sister later ask her why she said yes and why she had been hesitant. She said, “She had fallen in love with the boys,” and she said, “I couldn’t imagine disappointing them. What happens if it didn’t work? How could we ever do that?”
Howard (53:07):
Right. Oh man, let me, when I have rock stars in here, I talk about their greatest hits. And you’ve got, I’m going to go back to the Senate, a couple of things I’m going to mention. And the first thing is back in, I want to say ’94, Violence Against Women Act.
President Joe Biden (53:26):Yes.
Howard (53:26):This is something you were passionate about. You were one of the creators of this. And then the other day I’m watching the news and now they’re talking about the Supreme Court might even, that they might undo it, is that-
President Joe Biden (53:39):It’s the proudest thing I’ve ever done, it took me years to get it done.
Howard (53:41):But who would be against that?
President Joe Biden (53:43):Well, I got to be careful what I say about the court, but-
Howard (53:48):Why do you have to be careful?
President Joe Biden (53:49):Well, I think it’s important to-
Howard (53:52):
It’s a joke. First of all, does it drive you crazy? This keeps me up at night, and I’m not exaggerating. It occurs to me every day that when Obama had his time to appoint a Supreme Court Justice, he was going to appoint Garland. These maniacs in the Senate said, “No way, not interested.” And now we’ve got a Supreme Court that’s nuts.
President Joe Biden (54:19):
Well, it’s a really extremely conservative court. Maybe the most conservative court in modern history. And one of the things that when they struck down Roe v Wade saying that it was not constitutionally, federal constitution guaranteed, it was a state issue, states could make those judgments. I think they don’t, and one of the justices, Clarence Thomas said, “It’s not that women don’t have a choice. They can in fact change it.” In fact, at a state level like, well, we’ll see if they have any power. Well, they ain’t seen nothing yet. You’re going to see what will happen. If I’m elected president again in the second term, we’re going to be able to overrule them, not overrule, we’re going to be able to make Roe v Wade the law of the land again, because based on every state and the union being able to judge and get a majority vote in the Congress.
Howard (55:19):Do you think we can? Do you think that that could be done?
President Joe Biden (55:21):
I think we can do that because I think there’s going to be a real lesson learned on the mega Republican side of the aisle because we’re going to see a whole hell of a lot of state referenda and they’re going to see, they’re going to want to restore it, and that’s going to be able to be done.
Howard (55:39):Can I tell you a fantasy I had? I don’t know if you’re going to debate your opponent.
President Joe Biden (55:44):I am somewhere. I don’t know when, I’m happy to debate him.
Howard (55:47):
This is how I would handle it. Tell me if I’m nuts, we all know I am nuts, but tell me if this is accurate. I would stand there on stage with Trump and I would repeat over and over again. “Excuse me, please find me 11,000 votes so that I can win the election.” I would just repeat that over and over again. And then I’d say to the audience, “What are we debating? A man picked up the phone and wanted to say, fake the election. Give me 11,000 votes.” I don’t know how any American who loves this country, that’s the end of the debate. You don’t get to run if you’re going to fix an election.
President Joe Biden (56:22):Well, look, I think I said on January 6th when they were storming the capitol-
Howard (56:33):And a police officer died.
President Joe Biden (56:34):
Yep. And he would say nothing. He was sitting in that office off that dining area, off the Oval Office for three hours and said nothing. I was supposed to make a speech on the economy that day. Instead, I made a speech from, I was in Delaware, on that issue because I was elected president, but I wasn’t sworn in yet. The idea that we were actually
President Joe Biden (57:01):It was derelict, it was almost criminal. He did nothing. He just sat there and watched what was happening, not a single… And now he wants to call… He calls them patriots and victims and says he’s going to pardon them all if he’s reelected.
Howard (57:18):How does some of the guys that you served in the Senate with… I’m talking about Republicans.
President Joe Biden (57:22):They don’t.
Howard (57:24):How are they going along with this?
President Joe Biden (57:26):Well, look, this is not your father’s Republican Party.
Howard (57:31):No, it isn’t.
President Joe Biden (57:32):
I had a lot of Republicans, including the old segregationists that I served with, who at least you could talk to, at least on matters relating to… They were totally wrong on civil rights but the fact is that they understood there’s a need for a consensus to run this country. And I gave my word I’d never say their names, and I never will. In the last three years, I’ve had seven sitting Republican senators. Well, two are gone now. Seven sitting Republican senators call me to tell me, “Joe, I agree with you but I just can’t do it. He’ll get me.”
Howard (58:09):
That’s what I was going to ask you, do you get these calls in secret where guys go, “Listen, I can’t say it publicly but I’m for you and I’m going to vote for you. I’m a Republican but screw it, I can’t vote for this guy because he’s talking about ending the democracy.”
President Joe Biden (58:21):Well, they’re not saying they’re going to vote for me. They’re saying, “I agree with you.”
Howard (58:24):And do you say to them, “You coward. Why don’t you say something publicly?” Where’s Jeb Bush? Where’s George Bush? Where are these guys? Why don’t they say, “Hey, I’m interested in saving the democracy for our grandchildren.”
President Joe Biden (58:39):Well, I don’t think the election is over yet on that score.
Howard (58:43):What do you think is going to happen? I can’t imagine you’re going to lose but…
President Joe Biden (58:47):Well, look, he’s promised if he doesn’t win, there’s going to be a bloodbath, things like that.
Howard (58:53):Can you imagine?
President Joe Biden (58:54):
Here’s what bothers me most, we have a fundamentally different value set. For example, when he was in Paris, he wouldn’t go to that grave site and said, “They’re losers, these men and women who were killed in battle defending America. Losers and…” I’m glad I wasn’t there because I think I would’ve… My son is in one of those graves, he’s one of the graves back here, not there. And the idea that they’re losers and suckers, a president saying that…
Howard (59:26):And McCain is a loser… And he said, “McCain is a loser.”
President Joe Biden (59:29):Oh, McCain is a loser?
Howard (59:29):Can you imagine?
President Joe Biden (59:29):When John McCain got out of prison and was released, he came and worked for me. He was on the Senate Liaison officer, we traveled over 100,000 miles together. And he was like an assistant because he worked for the [inaudible 00:59:43]
Howard (59:42):He’s a fabulous man. I got to meet him before he died.
President Joe Biden (59:45):He was a straight-up guy, man. Tough as hell. And I find I can’t fathom a president of the United States of America saying that the folks who died defending this country were suckers and losers.
Howard (01:00:05):
Forget him. I can’t fathom a guy walks into the voting booth, especially a military member or somebody, and would vote for someone who says military guys who die are losers and suckers. In other words, I’m not disappointed in him. I’m disappointed in my fellow Americans. And maybe you can’t say that because the thing I do like about you is you really… I love this about you. You’re able to embrace people who didn’t vote for you. And to me, that’s fundamentally good and I want that in a president.
President Joe Biden (01:00:35):
Look, I think there’s an awful lot of military personnel who are not enamored with Trump and a fair number of them voted for me in 2020.
Howard (01:00:48):Good.
President Joe Biden (01:00:50):I don’t know the names but my point is… And I think part of… Look, you’re an expert on the subject I raised, I wonder what you think. How much do you think the modern media has altered the landscape?
Howard (01:01:11):
The internet, these apps, it has now generated a hatred and viciousness where people who used to be in the minority have found each other and it’s a growing movement. And I am so afraid for our democracy right now that people would embrace anyone who says they’re going to get into office and…
President Joe Biden (01:01:34):Well, look, one of the things is that there are no editors anymore.
Howard (01:01:37):No, everyone says everything.
President Joe Biden (01:01:41):And I think there’s a lot of really… I’m doing the Gridiron dinner on Saturday, and one of the things, the serious thing I’m going to say to Gridiron dinner is that paraphrasing Jefferson. He said, “The choice between what we have and a free press, I’d pick a free press.”
Howard (01:02:02):Damn right.
President Joe Biden (01:02:03):Well, guess what? The free press is not speaking up as much as it used to.
Howard (01:02:08):No.
President Joe Biden (01:02:09):And I’m not sure, I haven’t figured it out yet but I think it’s coming around. I’m not blaming the press. I’m just saying that I think some of them are worried about attacking him, worried about taking him on.
Howard (01:02:26):Yeah, everybody is scared. I don’t know why they’re so scared. I don’t get it. And by the way, did you ever think you’d live in an America where Republicans are for Putin?
President Joe Biden (01:02:37):No.
Howard (01:02:39):
I bang my head against the wall. Thank God you got the whole… The Ukraine aid. Who the hell?
President Joe Biden (01:02:45):
I spent a lot of time in Ukraine and I’ll tell you what, have we not gotten that done I think you might see the beginning… Kissinger before he died, 10 days before he died, got a message saying that said, “Not since Napoleon has Europe not looked over their shoulder at Russia with dread until now.” You’ve strengthened NATO, you’ve expanded it, you’ve moved it.
Howard (01:03:08):I can’t thank you enough for that.
President Joe Biden (01:03:09):Well, it’s not just me. But the point is, I’ve worked really hard, spent hours and hours and hours doing this. And the idea that had we not gotten this done, I think you would’ve seen a beginning of disintegration of NATO.
Howard (01:03:25):I know. Did you ever think you’d see that in your lifetime?
President Joe Biden (01:03:28):No.
Howard (01:03:28):No.
President Joe Biden (01:03:29):
Except that he says, he, Trump, thinks we should not have NATO. He doesn’t support NATO. And he thinks they’re not doing… Inviting Putin, inviting Putin to invade Ukraine or any other NATO partner because they’re not putting enough money up.
Howard (01:03:49):
Can you believe there are two people who believe that? You think about all the men who died in World War II fighting Nazis and keeping this democracy alive, and now it’s crazy. Speaking about service and again, because I was asking you about loss, the loss of your son was devastating. But you know what strikes me? Here, you were a US senator, and you know this song by Creedence Clearwater I’m not a Fortunate Son. Here’s a son of a senator joins the military and was in Iraq.
President Joe Biden (01:04:21):
Well, look, my son Bo should be sitting here instead of me, he’s more capable than I am and he was the attorney general of the state of Delaware. And one day I came home… I don’t come home all the time. He came over to the house, he was living in Delaware. And he said, “Dad, what are you doing on Friday?” I said, “What do you need?” He said, “I need you to pin my bars on me.” I said, “Pin your bars on you? What the hell are you talking about?” He said, “I joined the National Guard.” And facetiously said, “Somebody’s got to do this anyway.” What happened after that was…
Howard (01:05:03):Were you in shock that he joined the National Guard?
President Joe Biden (01:05:05):No, I wasn’t in shock. It didn’t surprise me, it’s just I wouldn’t encourage him to do it, he was a sitting attorney general. He had to give up the attorney general’s job because you either have to work for the president or for the state.
Howard (01:05:19):He was attorney general at that point?
President Joe Biden (01:05:21):
He was attorney general. Now, he could join the National Guard and be accountable to the governor. But when the guard unit got sent overseas, he got an exception to be able to give up [inaudible 01:05:36] he wasn’t allowed to do any of the attorney general job, turned it back over to a Republican who had been there before and went for a year. The problem was he lived next to one of those burn pits. He came back with a Bronze Star, he came back with a [inaudible 01:05:51] Service Medal, but also came back with stage four glioblastoma. The brain injuries out of Iraq are extreme like they were the people in 9/11, all those firefighters because of the toxic fumes.
Howard (01:06:04):You are convinced that the reason he got brain cancer is because…
President Joe Biden (01:06:07):
Oh, I know it. It’s been determined, yeah. And a lot of them did, a lot of them is because of the toxic… Just like we’re convinced what happened to all those firefighters. And before that, as an assistant US attorney in Philadelphia, he had volunteered to go to Kosovo to help them set up a criminal justice system. They awarded him, he received a medal from Kosovo, both parties.
Howard (01:06:33):What a kid. What a kid. How did you know that he had… Did he call you and say, “Dad, I’ve gotten a horrible diagnosis.”
President Joe Biden (01:06:40):
Yeah, I learned when he learned, he let us know. But he had come home and it just kept getting worse and that’s when he realized they did the analysis. And then he was in Walter Reed for a long time but… I wrote a book called Promise Me, Dad. He knew his time was up and one night we were having a dinner at our home before he was incapacitated, hospitalized. And he said, “Dad, can we talk?” And I said, “Sure.” And he said, “Look at me, dad. Promise me, dad. Promise me, dad, that you’ll not leave public life. I know when I go, you’ll want to quit. You’ll want to quit.” And he looked at me, he said, “Dad, give me your word as a Biden. Give me your word, look at me.” I’m serious, I give my word on the health of my family. And he said, “Promise me, dad, you won’t step back.” And I made the promise, that’s what I ended up writing the book about. Not to sell the book but so my great-grandchildren and great-great can knew who he was.
Howard (01:07:57):Wow.
President Joe Biden (01:07:58):
Before he passed away… [inaudible 01:08:04] The last thing he said before he passed away, literally we were in the hospital a night with him lying in bed with him, he looked at me and he said, “I’m not scared, dad. It’s okay. I’m not scared. It’s okay.” He was gone within… Anyway.
Howard (01:08:24):Wow. You’ve had to deal with a lot of loss.
President Joe Biden (01:08:28):
Well, there’s a lot of heroes out there that dealt with what I’ve dealt with and more without the family I had, without support. I’m not joking.
Howard (01:08:38):No, I know you’re not.
President Joe Biden (01:08:39):There are thousands of heroes come up every day put one foot in front of the other, and they got nobody. They got nobody to help them with that child that survived or whatever it was, and they’re incredible.
Howard (01:08:52):Now, I understand why you’ve said to your family, “I’m the President of the United States.” But if any of your grandchildren or your children have to get in touch with you, you said, “I’ll leave any meeting and I will answer the phone.”
President Joe Biden (01:09:08):That’s true. And the other thing, I have a rule and I mean this sincerely, when I ran for re-election after the accident, I realized that I had a million bosses being from… Starting from small but only a million people.
Howard (01:09:32):Right.
President Joe Biden (01:09:35):
When they’re coming up, if I had to choose between going to a parent-teachers meeting and a vote, it wouldn’t matter, I’d went to the parent-teacher, I say so. And so during one of the Supreme Court hearings, a really bright guy, I don’t want to embarrass him and mention his name, was having trouble, family trouble. I learned about it four days before the hearing began and I told him to go home and he said no. I said, “I’m going to fire you if you don’t go. Go home and take care of your family.” And so I have a rule, everybody knows in my office, if you have any problem relating to family, you don’t have to tell me what it is, just look at me in the eye and say, “I can’t be here. I got to take care of things.”
Howard (01:10:19):
I want to thank you for doing this today. I want to thank you for your compassion. The reason I am so excited to talk to you is because I wanted to understand the tragedy in your life and how you dealt with it. And you’re the kind of leader I love, because we’re lucky to have you in the Oval Office and serving as the father of the country. Because if you’re a good father to your family, which you are, I know you’d be a good father to the country. And I want to thank you for providing a calming influence, an organized administration post-COVID, getting that vaccine out. I remember what the world was like at that point, getting NATO, getting us to feel comfortable standing up to Putin. I could read your greatest hits but I’m being given the high sign.
But the incredible large growth in the jobs, unemployment rate down, I don’t know what people are looking for in a president or maybe it’s that people don’t feel like they’re getting enough or something. I don’t know what it is. But I’ll give you your greatest hits, the lowest uninsured rate in history, 4 out of 5 Americans are covered for less than $10 a month, knocking off a few ISIS leaders, cutting the emissions in half, you’ve always been an environmentalist. Geez, even the marijuana reform laws, enough sitting there and fighting that battle. Respect for Marriage Act. What the hell is with people with this gay stuff? Who cares if someone is gay? How is it affecting anybody? People in love, it’s good. Love is good.
President Joe Biden (01:11:53):My dad said we saw two men kissing one another in Rodney Square when I was going in to get a license. And I looked at him and he said, “Joey, it’s simple. They love each other.”
Howard (01:12:04):That’s it. That’s how I look at it. Listen, this has been a thrill. You know I put a suit on for you. And here’s the depressing thing, this is from my daughter’s wedding a year ago last summer, and now I don’t fit into it. My belly is hanging over my belt.
President Joe Biden (01:12:21):
Well, I’ll tell you what.
Howard (01:12:22):
What do I do?
President Joe Biden (01:12:22):Do you know who deserves credit? The American people are relentless, the American people are stepping up. Who would they vote for? They just never give up. We’re the most unique country in the world, we really are.
Howard (01:12:36):We are but I don’t want to lose it.
President Joe Biden (01:12:37):We’re not going to lose it, God willing.
Howard (01:12:39):Thank you for doing this.
President Joe Biden (01:12:40):Well, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Howard (01:12:42):Mr. President. Look at me sitting with the president.
President Joe Biden (01:12:45):Look at me sitting with Howard Stern.
Howard (01:12:46):Wow. You can tell people this is the most important event in your lifetime.
President Joe Biden (01:12:52):I’ll tell them that [inaudible 01:12:54]
Howard (01:12:54):President Joe Biden, thank you.
President Joe Biden (01:12:58):Thank you. Thank you, Howard. Appreciate it.