"Face The Nation" Full Broadcast | March 10, 2024
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington. And this week on Face the Nation: Both presumed nominees turn the page to the general election, and President Biden steps up the pressure on Israel to tone down the violence in Gaza.
Ahead of Tuesday's primary in a crucial general election battleground, President Biden and former President Trump both campaigned in Georgia Saturday night, a state that in the last presidential race went blue for the first time in nearly 30 years.
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JOE BIDEN (President of the United States): Guys, you really want to do it again.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Seventy miles north of Biden's event, Trump said it was not fair to compare him to his opponent.
(Begin VT) DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate): Two very unpopular people are running for office, very unpopular.I said, why am I unpopular? I just knocked off 12 people in the quickest time that it's ever happened.(End VT) MARGARET BRENNAN: That opponent, still riding away with positive reviews from his fiery State of the Union speech, leaned in to a tougher approach in the Israel-Hamas conflict, privately vowing a come-to-Jesus talk with Prime Minister Netanyahu.
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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: He must, he must pay more attention to the innocent lives being lost as a consequence of the actions taken. He's hurting – in my view, he's hurting Israel more than helping Israel. And I think it's a big mistake. So I want to see a cease-fire.
(End VT) MARGARET BRENNAN: But will a call for a six-week cease-fire to start with be enough for the progressives in his party? We will ask Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.
Plus, we will talk with House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries.
Then: Could Americans dim assessment of the economy finally be looking up? We will hear from Gary Cohn, a former Trump economic adviser.
Plus, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairs Mark Warner and Marco Rubio join us to discuss the worldwide threats facing America.
It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
We are coming off a big week in politics. But there are challenges ahead, particularly with the war between Israel and Hamas reaching a critical point as the holy month of Ramadan begins.
And we turn now to that crisis in the Middle East and renewed fears of violence in Jerusalem. I do want to note that we have an extensive bipartisan conversation with the chairs of the Senate Intelligence Committee. That will be coming up in a moment.
But we're going to begin with Senator Bernie Sanders from Burlington, Vermont.
Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I-Vermont): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have long been a critic of Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The other night, President Biden was heard on a hot mic after the State of the Union address saying he has to have a come-to-Jesus talk with Netanyahu about letting humanitarian aid into Gaza. Have you spoken to President Biden about whether he's had this conversation? If he hasn't, what is he waiting for? And if he already had it, has it made any difference?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I have spoken to people very high up in his administration.
Here's the bottom line, Margaret. What we are seeing in Gaza today is literally an unprecedented crisis. It's not just that 30,000 people, two- thirds of whom are women and children, have already been killed. We are looking at the possibility of hundreds of thousands of children starving to death.
The United States of America cannot be complicit in this mass slaughter of children. So it is one thing to talk to Netanyahu to pressure Netanyahu. But here is the bottom line. Year after year, we have provided billions of dollars in military aid to the government of Israel.
Right now, you have a right-wing extremist government under Netanyahu. There are plans to provide him with another $10 billion in unfettered military aid. What you can't say to Netanyahu, stop the slaughter, allow the massive amounts of humanitarian aid that we need to come in to feed the children, please, please, please. Oh, but by the way, if you don't do it, here's another $10 billion to continue the war.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Now, we have written a letter to the president.
It turns out that Israel is in violation of the law. Stopping American humanitarian aid – is in violation of the law. That should be clear. No more money to Netanyahu's war machine to kill Palestinian children.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I think it is the right thing to do.
You can't beg Netanyahu. You got to tell him, if you want any money, you got to change your policy. Allow the trucks to come in to feed their children. And, by the way, in terms of politics…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: … which is secondary, to my mind, in this issue, the truth is, whether you're a conservative Republican or a progressive, you do not want to see children in Palestine starve to death.
So I think it's good politics, and it's the moral and right thing to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But a temporary cease-fire is sufficient for you?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: To feed the children right now is…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: … what we've got to exactly do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Yesterday, President Biden was asked about Israel's plans to launch an operation into the southern city of Rafah in Southern Gaza. Listen to what he said.
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JONATHAN CAPEHART (MSNBC Host): Would invasion of Rafah, which you have urged him not to do, would that be a red line?
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: It is a red line, but I'm never going to leave Israel. The defense of Israel is still critical. So there's no red line I'm going to cut off all weapons, so they don't have the Iron Dome to protect them, they don't have – but there's red lines that, if he crosses, and they continue – you can cannot have 30,000 More Palestinians dead.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was that clear to you in terms of where that red line is? And what do you make of it?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Look, Margaret, 1.7 million Palestinians, 80 percent of their population, have been driven from their homes and displaced.
Many of them end up in Rafah. To go in there and to displace them again and start a major military campaign would be an unmitigated disaster. So, my view is, of course, we cannot support an attack of that kind on Rafah.
Bottom line is, though, Netanyahu has got to be told, no more money for his war machine unless there is humanitarian aid coming in to feed the people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that'll be in the hands at the moment of – of the House of Representatives, which hasn't scheduled a vote.
On the politics of this, more than 100,000 voters in Michigan went uncommitted to protest Mr. Biden's policy. In the state of Minnesota in the recent primary there, you saw a similar boycott. Almost 20 percent went uncommitted.
Given your moral objections, your personal issues here, can you, in good conscience, ask your supporters to vote for Mr. Biden?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, look, the contrast that I think President Biden made it very clear in his State of the Union address, if you believe that climate change is real, you've got to vote for President Biden. If you believe that women have a right to control their own bodies, you've got to vote for President Biden. If you think that, at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, you don't give trillions of dollars in tax breaks to the 1 percent, you've got to vote for Biden. If you want to lower the cost of prescription drugs, you've got to vote for Biden. If you believe in democracy and involving people in the process, rather than keeping people from voting, you have to vote for Biden.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you're saying…
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: So I am, in short…
MARGARET BRENNAN: … progressives need to put this aside?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: I am saying we've got to come – not put it aside. The fight continues to change Biden's policy in Gaza.
But the contrast between Biden and Trump is day and night. The election of Trump would be a disaster for this country and, in my view, the world. We've got to come together, reelect Biden. But, at the same time, we have to demand that we have a progressive agenda, where we have an economy that works for all, not just a few.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you're standing by your endorsement of Mr. Biden's election, despite the current policy?
>SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, no, I'm not supporting Mr. Trump. No, I…
(LAUGHTER)> MARGARET BRENNAN: No, no, no, Mr. Biden.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: The election of Trump would be – yes. That's right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for your time this morning.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tomorrow, the Senate Intelligence Committee will hold their annual worldwide threats hearing.
We sat down for a bipartisan conversation with Chairs Mark Warner and Marco Rubio Thursday just before the State of the Union address to discuss some of the challenges facing America today.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Through the U.S. national security lens, how concerned are you about the rising risk to U.S. interests in the Middle East because of the close alliance with Israel's war in Gaza?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO (R-Florida): I think it's a mistake to view October 7 simply through the lens of the Palestinian-Israeli question.
I think the reason why Hamas was armed, equipped and felt the confidence is this broader narrative, this broader objective that Iran has to drive the U.S. out of the region. It is why they are conducting attacks in Iraq and Syria. They want a U.S. troop presence out of the region completely. So then…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Should it stay?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Huh?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you believe that those 2,500 troops in the region should stay?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: I do.
And the reason why I believe that is because they are not only there on the counter-ISIS mission – let's not forget that group is still existing, and it's still a threat – but because they sit – the reason why Iran wants us out of there is that our – we are stationed at key points that tie Damascus and Baghdad and all these supply routes that Iran wants to dominate..
If we were gone, these proxy groups would now be at the border of Jordan, be able to threaten Jordan and ultimately threaten Israel as a result. But I am concerned, I mean, whether it's Hezbollah and up in the north of Israel, whether it's what's happening in Gaza, whether it's what's happening with Yemen, that the risk of conflict is very real. It's a dangerous and tenuous situation. There's no doubt about.
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden's reviewing whether to keep those troops in Iraq in the same numbers.
SENATOR MARK WARNER (D-Virginia): Yes. And I will be anxious to see what he says.
I do think, though…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think they should stay?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I think, in terms of current basis, yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden wants to establish a port in Gaza to try to bring humanitarian aid in.
It's not exactly clear the cost, the U.S. military role. Do you think that is a good decision?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: United States has been the largest single donor to humanitarian efforts for years in the region.
And I think it is important that we continue to show that. I mean, the airlift approach is more symbolic than it actually getting relief to most folks, and I think the right thing to do in terms of, particularly as we go into Ramadan, hopefully lowering some of the tension, but also shows America's concern for some of the humanitarian costs in the region.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: I would just add one thing to this.
And that is, it's important to understand why. Everybody's in favor of helping innocent civilians who are caught in the crossfire of any conflict. I think it's important to understand the reason why aid can't get to them. Hamas has built this system of tunnels. It's expensive. I mean, I don't care if they got a great deal on the concrete.
It's expensive to build this extensive system of tunnels, millions of dollars. That's money that could have gone to create an economy, to feed people, to build hospitals and – and serve civilians. They didn't do it.
And there's real concern and I think very legitimate reason to believe that any aid that goes in there will be grabbed by Hamas used for their purposes, at the expense of the civilian population. Hamas has a track record of zero when it comes to caring about the lives of civilians or of society in general.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know that the U.S. Ambassador David Satterfield, who's handling that, has said in written letters to Congress that they have no evidence that Hamas is stealing the aid, certainly not defending Hamas at all, but saying that aid can continue to be pushed into Gaza without Hamas stealing it.
The issue is the…
(CROSSTALK)
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Well, I will just respond personally.
I don't know what he's talking about, because how does Hamas get food? Hamas does not have an economy. Hamas does – Hamas – everything Hamas gets comes from abroad, from Iranians and from what they take. I think the evidence is in place that they have existed as an organization without any means of generating revenue, other than what they are able to capture from others. That's just common sense.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, but in terms of now, with the aid getting in now?
(CROSSTALK)
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I think the – the food and water and other relief aid, I think it is – you – you've got to make sure you have a distribution system.
But I think – I agree with Ambassador Satterfield. But let's also step back for a moment. And this tunnel network, which is close to 500 kilometers, I don't think we – any of us fully expected that. And they have been able to secure that.
The fact that we are 140 days, roughly, into this invasion, I think most of us, even in the region, thought the Israeli defense fund – Defense Forces would be able to take out Hamas; 140 days in, they've basically taken out only about 35 percent of the Hamas – Hamas fighters, and literally have only penetrated less than a third of the tunnel network.
We brought in some of our experts and – to say that if – if this…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: … was us trying to take out this tunnel network, could we do it quicker, more efficiently? And, candidly, the answer was, maybe we could be a bit faster, but when Hamas is gruesomely holding the hostages to prevent some of the takeout of the tunnels, this is one of the lessons.
This and I think the lesson of drones in – in Ukraine are two of the things in terms of military doctrine I think that we're going to have to learn from both of these conflicts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, says total victory is within reach, weeks away, you are not describing total victory within weeks.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I – I have not…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You're saying the impact's tiny.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Meeting with – meeting with folks in Israel, in the military community, in the intelligence community, the idea that you're going to eliminate every Hamas fighter, I don't think is a realistic goal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
And you agree with that?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Well, I think that it is possible to achieve a situation in which Hamas does not have the capability to do what they did on October 7.
That doesn't mean Hezbollah doesn't step in and take over now as a result. That doesn't mean that a new Hamas offshoot wouldn't be created. This is an ongoing challenge. And at the end, the head of this entire snake is the Iranian regime. They are the ones that provide the weaponry and the funds.
There's no Hamas fighters starving to death. There's no Hamas leaders starving to death. They're all fed. They all have medical care. And they all have all the assistance they need to continue to do the things they do.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we will be back in one minute with of our conversation.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We asked the senators what the greatest national security threat facing our country is. And there was quite a list.
But in terms of the long-term challenge, both agreed it's China.
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Last year, you told me technology competition with China is the issue of our time.
How far ahead is – is the U.S. versus China in A.I.?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: One of the things that Senator Rubio and I have done on a bipartisan basis is try to go industry by industry in America and warn them of the potential theft of intellectual property, $500 billion a year, the fact that China is investing in quantum computing, in bio, a lot of our time spending on – on bioengineering and activities China's taking.
I think we need to compete against that. On A.I., it's a little bit – I believe, a little bit of a better story. You know, a couple years back, when we thought the country that had the most data and the most compute – and the most engineers might purely win, that's not proven to be the case.
The vast majority of innovation is still taking place in this country. If you look at all of the major A.I. companies, they're virtually all American. I don't underestimate China, but we have that innovative economy that – that, frankly, still benefits with us.
And, frankly, the Chinese regime is reluctant to allow these large language models to be used by their population because, frankly, they might find the truth about what the regime has done all the way back to Tiananmen Square in 1989.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are reports that China lags the U.S. by about a year. Is that consistent with what you've been briefed?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: I – I don't know how to characterize the timeframe.
But I would say that's not really the issue, per se. I mean, first of all, I – we're clearly, I think, ahead, simply because they steal our stuff. We're not interested in stealing their stuff. So there's a reason why they want our stuff, because it's better.
I think the bigger concern is how it would be utilized.
MARGARET BRENNAN: China's ramping up its military spending.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Rubio, you recently voted against the national security supplemental that would have sent $5 billion to the Indo-Pacific and to help Taiwan. Why do you think that money can wait?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Well, I don't think it should wait. I just don't think it should be held hostage on the issue of whether or not we're going to deal with our border.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are saying that the aid to Taiwan is being held hostage to the border, but you are saying the border needs to be handled first.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: If we would have done a bill that would have voted for the money to Taiwan and the Indo-Pacific and money to Israel, I would have voted for that.
But they want Ukraine in exchange for the border, and – and the same way they're holding Israel funding hostage. They won't do Israel funding without Ukraine. And I support helping Ukraine. But I believe that our national security begins in our own country at our border, where, today, you have thousands of people a day walking into the country, many of whom we do not know who they are.
That has to be a priority. And we insisted.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you get aid to deal with Taiwan now?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Let's vote for it. Let's put up a bill of votes on Taiwan.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You're saying it has to be a stand-alone $5 billion…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: No, it doesn't have to be.
I mean, if the president tonight at the State of the Union – I know we're taping this – and he announces that he's going to re – put back in place the policies that allowed us to detain single adults until the removal proceedings were done, I will vote for that. I will vote for that bill.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But it requires a lot of funding. You know that. You would be for…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: It doesn't require a lot of funding. That's the existing law of the country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Border security says it needs more funding, as does ICE…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Well let's do the funding for that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … and all the other agencies.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: But – but it starts with the executive order, which is what applies our laws, which he refuses to do, because it would require him to admit that Trump was right about the border.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, because…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: I am sure Mark agrees with everything I just said.
(LAUGHTER)
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Well, listen, I just think this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I think you're gritting your teeth through that.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I would simply say this. I would just say this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: The border's a mess.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: There are certain things that the president can do executive order.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president says the border is not secure.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: But let's go back to what President Trump said.
President Trump said: Change the law, so I can do more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I respectfully believe that what Senator Lankford put forward was as tough of a border deal as it could get passed in this Congress and even next Congress, because – unless there is a, you know, 80-member shift one way or the other in either political party.
I think politics is the art of the possible, I think it was a good deal. And I agree with Marco we need to get the money to China and Taiwan. We need to get the money, both humanitarian and for Israel.
But I think the issue that I have been most wrapped around is, if we walk away from the people of Ukraine at this point, after, in the last two years, the Ukrainians, with our help and the Europeans' help, at literally the cost of less than 3 percent of our defense budget, have eliminated 87 percent of the Russian pre-invasion ground forces, 63 percent of their tanks, 32 percent of armored personnel carriers, if we don't stand by Ukraine right now, the rest of the world should never trust us again.
And this notion that these authoritarian nations are watching each other, if people say Xi is a threat, and if they don't believe that, if President Putin is successful in Ukraine, and that will then put NATO and American troops in harm's way, Xi will take lessons from that.
I think there is an enormous linkage. If we don't stand by that commitment, then I think this will be a mistake of – as historic as some of the mistakes made in advance of World War II.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you respond to that?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: We have 7.2 million people in this country that have been here over the last three years.
Some of them, we don't really know who they are. New York just deployed National Guard troops to the street because of a migrant crime wave. But we have a serious problem here at home.
And so I think that we have to go to Americans and say, OK, first and foremost, our priority is going to be to deal with our issues here. And all I'm asking is that be made a priority equal to…
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, if President Biden…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: … what we're doing around the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … tomorrow said, oh, I'm going to put in an emergency action to, you know…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: He's already said he might.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … essentially mimic remain-in-Mexico, you'd say, fine, here's $60 billion for Ukraine?
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Sure. That's what I said. That's what I have said from the very beginning.
We have a migrant wave that began in mid-January of 2021, because people calculated that, if they got here, they were going to be able to stay. And 85 to 90 percent of them were right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: And it's drawing more people to come here. It's unsustainable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I think most Americans – and, in fact, polling backs us this – believe that there is an issue that needs to be dealt with in the border. But you are linking them right now. You are.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Sure, just – and no different than the people that are linking Israel aid to Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, because…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Because they won't vote for a stand-alone Israel bill. They want – unless we do Ukraine. And I'm saying, I won't do Ukraine unless we secure America's border.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You, Senator, helped to spearhead an effort with Senator Kaine on a bipartisan basis to prevent any president from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you write that with Donald Trump in mind? Because he's the only president that I can recall who has ever threatened…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: No, I wrote it…
MARGARET BRENNAN: … to withdraw from NATO.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: I wrote it – and you will have – I can't speak for Senator Kaine.
I wrote it with the belief that it's an important alliance. If NATO didn't exist, we would have to create it. It's one of our strategic strengths that we have in the world, because China doesn't have these alliances, for example, and neither do the Russians, for that matter, or the Iranians, for that matter.
But I – and so – and I believe Congress needs to play a role in deciding whether we're going to remove ourselves from that. That said, I will tell you that, despite what people may say is rhetoric, because I have acknowledged that Donald Trump does not talk like a member of the Council on Foreign Relations on these issues.
He actually increased troop levels in Poland. And I saw them. I was there when that happened.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He was trying to draw down from Germany and…
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: To increase in Poland.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … rotate into Poland. President Biden reversed that.
SENATOR MARCO RUBIO: And so the point being is that I don't believe Donald Trump will remove us from NATO. I do think he is going to do, admittedly in an unorthodox way, what virtually every American president has done since the onset of NATO, and that is demand that some NATO countries do more.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will continue our conversation in a moment, so stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)