Speaker 1 (00:34):Tonight, a critical test in the race for the White House, five Republicans battling to become their party’s 2024 presidential nominee. The candidates ready to make their case on why they’re prepared to be commander-in-chief amid two wars on the world stage, how they plan to tackle stubborn inflation and how they can unite a deeply divided electorate. Who is best to take on President Biden? And can any of them first be former President Trump? Who’s far ahead in the polls? The candidates are here. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, and South Carolina, Senator Tim Scott.
(01:26) From NBC News, the Republican Presidential Debate. Live from the Adrienne Arsht Center in Miami, Florida.
Lester Holt (01:50):And good evening everyone. Welcome to the Republican Presidential Debate, I’m Lester Holt, anchor of NBC Nightly News.
Kristen Welker (01:56):Good evening, I’m Kristen Welker, moderator of NBC’s Meet the Press.
Hugh Hewitt (02:01):Hello, I’m Hugh Hewitt, host of Salem Radio’s, the Hugh Hewitt Show.Lester Holt (02:04):
We are now just 68 days from the Iowa caucuses when Republican primary voters will begin to determine their party’s nominee for president. Tonight, we’ll question five candidates seeking that nomination on how they’re best prepared to be commander-in-chief, and of course how best to bring down prices impacting Americans across the country. We have two hours for a serious debate on the issues that matter most to Republican voters. Candidates will have one minute and 30 seconds for answers and the opportunity for a closing statement. Follow-ups will be at the discretion of all of us at the table, the moderators. Invoking a candidate’s name or policy does not necessarily mean the mentioned candidate is entitled to a response. We want to caution all the candidates not to interrupt or speak over your fellow debaters. If you talk over each other, the voters can’t hear you. And given the critical issues we’re facing specifically on the world sage, we want everyone to hear every word you have to say, continued interruptions may result in loss of additional questions. And to our audience, please, please hold your applause so that the candidates can be heard.
(03:12)With that said, let’s have a good debate. All right, our first question, the opening question is one for all of you. Donald Trump is the first ex-president in more than 100 years to [inaudible 00:03:23] popular among Republican primary voters as his legal challenges mount. Governor DeSantis, let me begin with you on this one. Speak to Republican voters who are supporting Donald Trump. why should you and not him be the Republican nominee to face Joe Biden a year from now?
Gov. Ron DeSantis (03:43):This country is in trouble and the elites that have put us here, they don’t care about you. They don’t care that you’re having to grapple with higher grocery prices or have higher gas prices, they don’t care that your family’s less secure because of the open border that’s allowed drugs and even terrorists to come into this country. Well, I care. I am not going to sit idly by and let this country continue its downward spiral, we need leadership and we need it now. I’ll take the hits, I’ll take the arrows, I’ll take the slayings because ultimately it’s not about me, it’s about you. I will fight for you. I will make sure to lead this country’s revival and I will win for you and your family. Actions speak louder than words. We don’t have time for excuses and it’s not something that we’re going to be able to have all these distractions. As a veteran, I will get the job done.(04:33)Now if you look where we are now, it’s a lot different than where we were in 2016 and Donald Trump’s a lot different guy than he was in 2016. He owes it to you to be on this stage and explain why he should get another chance. He should explain why he didn’t have Mexico pay for the border wall, he should explain why he racked up so much debt. He should explain why he didn’t drain the swamp and he said Republicans we’re going to get tired of winning. Well, we saw last night I’m sick of Republicans losing in Florida, I showed how it’s done, one year ago, here we won a historic victory including a massive landside right here in Miami-Dade County, that’s how we have to do it. So I promise you this as the nominee next November, I’ll get the job done and as president I will deliver for you.
Lester Holt (05:19):Your time is up. Let me turn to Ambassador Haley… Audience. Let me turn to Ambassador Haley, why you and not the former president?
Nikki Haley (05:28):Well, I think you look at the fact that we’re almost $34 trillion in debt. 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, 50% of American families can’t afford diapers. One in six American families can’t pay their utility bills. You have parents who are worried about what’s being said or taught to their child in the classroom, there’s no transparency. We have antisemitism all over our college campuses and students feel unsafe. You’ve got an open border where terrorists can come through and we’ve got wars happening all over us and there are dangers around us. Everybody wants to talk about President Trump. Well, I can talk about President Trump. I can tell you that I think he was the right president at the right time. I don’t think he’s the right president now. I think that he put us $8 trillion in debt and our kids are never going to forgive us for that.(06:18)I think the fact that he used to be right on Ukraine and foreign issues, now he’s getting weak in the knees and trying to be friendly again. I think that we’ve got to go back to the fact that we can’t live in the past, we can’t live in other headlines. We’ve got to start focusing on what’s going to make America strong and proud. And that’s what I’m focused on doing. Let’s make sure we pay down our debt, I think we need an accountant in the White House. Let’s make sure that we have transparency in the classroom, as a mom, I know what that means. Let’s make sure we secure our borders so that our families are safe. Let’s get crime down because our families want to know that they can be safe no matter where they go. And as the wife of a combat veteran, I will tell you a military needs to know we have their back and we need to make sure that America’s strong.
Lester Holt (07:01):Ambassador, thank you very much. Let me just caution the audience. Let’s not go down this road, we’ve asked you to please restrain yourselves and would be helpful so we can hear the candidates because these are important issues and the voters want and need to hear them. Mr. Ramaswamy, let me turn to you. Please make your case, why should you be the nominee and not the former president?
Vivek Ramaswamy (07:27):I think there’s something deeper going on in the Republican Party here and I am upset about what happened last night. We’ve become a party of losers, at the end of the day. We as a cancer the Republican establishment. Let’s speak the truth, I mean since Ronald McDaniel took over as chairwoman of the RNC in 2017, we have lost 2018, 2020, 2022, no red wave that never came, we got trounced last night in 2023. And I think that we have to have accountability in our party for that matter, Ron, if you want to come on stage tonight, you want to look the GOP voters in the eye and tell them you resign. I will turn over my yield, my time to you. And frankly, look the people there cheering for losing in the Republican Party.(08:08)Think about whose moderating this debate, this should be Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan and Elon Musk, we’d have 10 times the viewership asking questions that GOP primary voters actually care about and bringing more people into our party. And we’ve Kristen Welker here, do you think the Democrats would actually hire Greg Gutfeld to host a democratic debate? They wouldn’t do it. And so the fact of the matter is, I mean Kristen, I’m going to use this time, ’cause this is actually about you in the media and the corrupt media establishment. Ask you the Trump Russia collusion hoax that you pushed on this network for years, was that real or was that Hillary Clinton made up disinformation? Answer the question. Go.
Kristen Welker (08:47):Mr. Ramaswamy-
Lester Holt (08:48):Sorry-
Vivek Ramaswamy (08:49):This is how we get our country back. We need accountability because this media rigged the 2016 election, they rigged the 2020 election with a Hunter Biden laptop story, and they’re going to rig this election [inaudible 00:09:01]-
Lester Holt (09:00):Mr. Ramaswamy, you’re time is up.
Vivek Ramaswamy (09:01):… accountability, that’s how you unite this country.
Lester Holt (09:02):Let me turn to Governor Christie, why you… Audience, let’s not do this. Let’s not do this, let’s let the candidates speak. Governor Christie, why you and not former President Trump?
Gov. Chris Christie (09:15):Well, Lester, look, you said it at the beginning of the debate. We are dealing with extraordinarily important issues facing this country right now. We have our greatest ally in the Middle East under fire from a terrorist group that has committed to wiping them and every Jewish person in this world off the map. We have Ukraine with Vladimir Putin, a communist KGB dictator who wants to put the old band back together, he’s starting in Ukraine and he’s going to move to the Baltics and Poland after that. We have inflation in this country that is choking, choking every American family that wants to try to rise up and give their children a better life. And tonight we need to decide which president’s going to be the one to tackle the big issues? Who’s going to make this country look once again, not just inward, but look outward at the world and say America is the country, the indispensable nation that makes this a safer world? And in a safer world, American innovation, American hard work has always been the thing that has driven our country to greater things.(10:33)I’m going to be the President who will do those big things. We’re not going to be small. And I’ll say this about Donald Trump. Anybody who’s going to be spending the next year and a half of their life focusing on keeping themselves out of jail and courtrooms cannot lead this party or this country, and it needs to be said plainly.
Lester Holt (10:47):All right, Governor, thank you. Let me turn to Senator Scott. Senator Scott, you’ve said former President Trump can’t win. Make your case to Republican voters.
Sen. Tim Scott (10:56):Well certainly what I would say without any questions that the truth of my life destroys the lies of the radical left. We need a president and a candidate who will actually help our base solidify and attract independent voters into our party. The great opportunity party is now winning back African-American voters and Hispanic voters, because we are working on a foundation based on faith, our nation is facing some deep challenges, it is a loss of faith in this nation that is a part of the erosion that we’re seeing every single day. It’s restoring faith, restoring our Christian values that will help this nation once again become the city on the hill. When Ronald Reagan talked about the city on the hill, he was coming from Matthew five. When President Lincoln talked about a house divided, that was Mark. Our founding documents speak to the importance of a faith foundation. You don’t have to be a Christian for America to work for you, but America does not work without a faith-filled Judeo-Christian foundation.(12:07)I would be the President that helps us restore faith in God, faith in each other and faith in our future. Without that focus, none of the issues, the policies matter. We have to get back to being a nation that is in fact the city on the hill that believes in each other enough for us to fight for that future.
Lester Holt (12:30):Senator Scott, thank you. We’re going to turn now to the challenges facing the next commander-in-chief. You’ll all be fielding questions first from me and the Republican Jewish Coalition and then from Kristen and Hugh. So as we continue forward, the Israel Hamas war is barely a month old, tonight, Israeli troops are fighting inside Gaza City with over 200 hostages who remain captive there and civilian casualties mount inside Gaza. As President of the United States, what would you be urging Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu to do at this moment? Governor DeSantis.
Gov. Ron DeSantis (13:06):I would be telling Bibi, finish the job once and for all with these butchers, Hamas, their terrorists, their massacring innocent people. They would wipe every Jew off the globe if they could. He cannot live with that threat right by his country. That Hamas should release every hostage and they should unconditionally surrender. I’m sick of hearing the media, I’m sick of hearing other people blame Israel just for defending itself. We will stand with Israel in word and indeed in public and in private. And I can tell you as governor, I actually did something about it. Biden’s neglect has been atrocious, we had Floridians that were over there after the attack. He left them stranded. They couldn’t get flights out. So I scrambled resources in Florida. I sent planes over to Israel and I brought back over 700 people to safety. There could have been more hostages had we not acted.(14:01)And I’ll tell you this, I met the first planeload when they came to Florida and one of the mothers pointed to a six-year-old daughter. And she said, “My daughter had been saying the last two nights, mommy, I don’t want to hear any more bombs, no more rockets. I just want to get back to Florida.” So there’s a difference between words and deeds, we acted and we save lives.
Lester Holt (14:21):Thank you. Ambassador Haley, what would you do? What would you be urging Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to do? Would you consider humanitarian pause for example?
Nikki Haley (14:29):The first thing I said to him when it happened was I said, finish them. Finish them. And the reason is I worked on this every day when I was at the United Nations and we have to remember that they have to one, eliminate Hamas, two support Israel with whatever they need, whenever they need it. And three, make sure we bring our hostages home. We need to be very clear-eyed to know there would be no Hamas without Iran, there would be no Hezbollah without Iran. There would not be the Houthis without Iran and there wouldn’t be the Iranian militias in Syria and Iraq that are trying to hit our military men and women if it hadn’t been for Iran. And who is funding Iran, right now? China is buying oil from Iran, Russia is getting drones and missiles from Iran and there is an unholy alliance. We need to be clear-eyed. The last thing we need to do is to tell Israel what to do. The only thing we should be doing is supporting them in eliminating Hamas.(15:25)It is not that Israel needs America, America needs Israel. They are the tip of the spear when it comes to this Islamic terrorism and we need to make sure that we have their backs in that process.
Lester Holt (15:38):All right, thank you. Mr. Ramaswamy, any daylight between you and the candidates we just heard in this issue on what you would tell the Prime Minister?
Vivek Ramaswamy (15:46):In terms of what I would tell the Prime Minister, no. In fact I would go one step further, the founding vision of Israel was based on the idea that they don’t want to depend on anybody else’s sympathy or direction in defending themselves. So what I would tell Bibi is that Israel has the right and the responsibility to defend itself. I would tell him to smoke those terrorists on his southern border and then I’ll tell him as President of the United States, I’ll be smoking the terrorists on our southern border. That’s his responsibility, this is our responsibility. That’s how we move forward. But I want to be careful to avoid making the mistakes from the NeoCon establishment of the past. Corrupt politicians in both parties spent trillions, killed millions, made billions for themselves in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, fighting wars that sent 1000s of our sons and daughters, people my age to die in wars that did not advance anyone’s interests. Adding $7 trillion to our national debt.(16:40)And Joe Biden sold off our foreign policy. Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden got a $5 million bribe from Ukraine, that’s why we’re sending $200 billion back to that same country. The fact of the matter is the Republican Party is not that much better. You have the likes of Nikki Haley who stepped down from her time at the UN, bankrupt or in debt was her family. Then she becomes a military contractor, she joins the board of Boeing and otherwise and is now a multi-millionaire. So I think that that’s wrong when Republicans do it or Democrats do it. That’s the choice we face. Do you want a leader from a different generation who’s going to put this country first or do you want Dick Cheney in three inch heels? In which case, we’ve got two of them on stage tonight.
Lester Holt (17:16):All right, Mr. Ramaswamy, thank you. Senator Scott?
Sen. Tim Scott (17:21):Yes.
Lester Holt (17:22):Senator, same question to you about, you’re the president, you’re on the phone of the Oval Office with the Prime Minister, you tell him what?
Sen. Tim Scott (17:28):Well, number one, I would tell Prime Minister Netanyahu, not only do you have the responsibility and the right to wipe Hamas off of the map, we will support you, we will be there with you, we’ll stand shoulder to shoulder. There will be no daylight. But I would change the station a little bit though and head back home to America. I would say to President Biden, diplomacy only is a weak strategy, appeasement leads to war. From President Obama to President Biden, Obama sent millions to Iran, frankly, president Biden has hit billions to Iran. That is why I said that there’s blood dripping from the hands of President Obama and President Biden. I would tell President Biden with great clarity, if you want to stop the 40 plus attacks on military personnel in the Middle East, you have to strike in Iran. If you want to make a difference. You cannot just continue to have strikes in Syria on warehouses, you actually have to cut off the head of the snake and the head of the snake is Iran and not simply their proxies.(18:42)In order for us to have a powerful response from America, we have to be in a position of strength. As President of the United States, my foreign policy is simple, you cannot negotiate with evil, you have to destroy it.
Lester Holt (18:57):All right, Senator Scott, thank you. Governor Christie, I want to get you to weigh in here.
Gov. Chris Christie (19:02):Look Lester, these problems are so big and serious that the first thing I would say to Prime Minister Netanyahu is pretty simple, America is here no matter what it is you need at any time to preserve the state of Israel. Remember that Hamas’ main goal is to get rid of Israel. Is to get Israel absolutely off the map, now there are three things I think I would say to him when he asked for advice. The first I would say is that it is absolutely your obligation to protect the territorial integrity of Israel. Secondly, to make sure you protect the security and the safety of your people. Every time something happens to compromise either one of those things, it creates greater unrest in the entire region.(19:48)Second, you must go in and make sure that Hamas can never do this again. The fact is that Israel and their intelligence community failed. They failed here and they failed the people of the state of Israel. And so we need to work closely and better together to make sure one, that they’re degraded and two, that we know everything that’s going on inside the Gaza Strip when it’s going on so that something like this can’t happen to kill 1400 individuals again. And the third thing is to keep your eye on the ball, make sure that we continue to isolate Iran, work with the reasonable nations in the Middle East, the other Arab nations who want to partner with you and make sure that we continue to isolate Iran so that their only friends in the world are the part of the evil foursome, China we Russia, Iran, and North Korea.
Lester Holt (20:35):Governor Christie, thank you very much and we’re going to continue in this vein right now with a question from Matthew Brooks, the CEO of the Republican Jewish Coalition, a partner of the Republican National Committee in this debate, here it is.
Matthew Brooks (20:49):Given attacks by Iranian backed proxy groups on US military bases in Syria and Iraq, attacks that have wounded approximately two dozen of our US servicemen. Do you support the use of military force by the United States against Iran?
Lester Holt (21:07):Governor Haley, would you please answer that?
Nikki Haley (21:08):Yes, I’d first like to say they’re five-inch heels and I don’t wear them unless you can run in them.
Vivek Ramaswamy (21:13):Well, we’ve got two of you on stage-
Lester Holt (21:13):[inaudible 00:21:17].
Nikki Haley (21:19):The second thing that I’ll say is I wear heels, they’re not for a fashion statement, they’re for ammunition. What we need to be doing for Iraq and Syria is first of all, the idea that our men and women could be targeted and that we’ve allowed almost 100 hits to happen under Biden’s watch is unthinkable. We need to understand this is Iran giving the green light telling them what to do and we shouldn’t be doing the tit for tat like what Joe Biden has done. We need to go and take out their infrastructure that they are using to make those strikes with so they can never do it again. Iran responds to strength, you punch them one and you punch them hard and they will back off. But what we don’t need is Biden falling all over himself to get back in the Iran deal. Him giving $6 billion to get five hostages home, him telling Netanyahu now that he needs a pause or a ceasefire. We don’t need him going and sitting there tiptoeing around Iran because he thinks they’re going to do something.(22:16)You don’t respond to an enemy and a terrorist with fear, you respond with strength. When you do that, that’s when the world pays attention and that’s when Iran stops.
Lester Holt (22:27):Thank you. Governor DeSantis, if I can continue with you. Just today the US launched another one of its limited airstrikes against targets in Syria this time Iranian linked facility, how far would you go militarily to hold Iran accountable?
Gov. Ron DeSantis (22:42):Well first Matt, thanks for your question and I appreciate what you’ve done over the last month. I know it’s been very difficult for the community and appreciate you guys rallying together in difficult times. I actually served in Iraq back in the day and we had Al-Qaeda in Iraq, you had Shia militias that were funded by Iran that were killing 100s and 100s of US troops. And as commander-in-chief, I am not going to put our troops in harm’s way unless you’re willing to defend them with everything you have. Biden has a out there, they’re sitting ducks, he’s doing glancing blows, that’s just inviting more attacks from the Iranians. I would say you harm a hair on the head of an American service member and you are going to have hell to pay. We are not just going to sit there and let our service members be sitting ducks. And that’s true whether it’s Iran or whether it’s any country on the world. We have to be strong and we have to defend the people who defend us.
Lester Holt (23:42):All right, thank you, Governor. Now our second and final question from Matthew Brooks of the Republican Jewish Coalition. Please watch.
Matthew Brooks (23:52):Jewish students across the country are threatened and under attack. What do you say to Jewish students on college campuses who feel unsafe given the dramatic rise in antisemitism? And what do you to say to university presidents and college presidents who have not met the moral clarity moment to forcefully condemn Hamas terrorism?
Lester Holt (24:14):Mr. Ramaswamy, would you like to take that one?
Vivek Ramaswamy (24:16):Absolutely. I think the scourge of antisemitism across this country, including at places like my Alma Maters and places like Brooklyn Bridge in New York, it’s sad to see, but here’s what history teaches us. Antisemitism is a symptom of a deeper cancer in a country, in a society that is lost and we are lost. Several years ago when I wrote my first book, Woke Inc. I was talking about there were chanting death to America, death to white people, death to Christians, nobody was waking up back then. Now it’s even bad now they’re saying death to Israel and worse. So it is wrong, but we have to get to the root cause here. Now, I think it’s really important that we do this through leadership, not censorship. Leadership means fill that void with purpose and meaning, dilute this wokeism and antisemitism to irrelevance These kids, they have no idea what the heck they’re even talking about when they’re siding with Hamas over Israel, they are fools.(25:09)But I also want to caution here, if we go the direction of Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley, with whom I respectfully disagree on this issue, pro-censorship telling student groups to disband, mark my words soon they will say, if you question a vaccine and its side effects, you’re a bio-terrorist soon, they will say that if you show up at a school board meeting, you’re a domestic terrorist soon. If they say that J6 prisoners should be released, you’re an insurrectionist terrorist. So that’s where this road ends. We don’t quash this with censorship because that creates a worse underbelly, we quell it through leadership by calling it out. These university administrators have lost their way and we need leadership at the top in the United States of America that restores our founding values and that has no place for this kind of anti-Semitic hate. That’s where I stand while respecting our constitution.
Lester Holt (25:57):Your time is up. Senator Scott, let me get you to weigh in on what you just heard.
Sen. Tim Scott (26:01):Well, let me just say to every single university president in America, federal funding is a privilege, not a right, number one. Number two, to every student who’ve come to our country on a visa to a college campus, your visa is a privilege, not a right. Number three, any campus that allows for antisemitism and hate, to allow students to encourage terrorism, mass murder and genocide, you should lose your federal funding today, period. To all the students on visas who are encouraging Jewish genocide, I would deport you from those campuses. We have to stand strong with our Jewish Americans. At the end of the day, we should not have our Jewish students in a library being told to hide on our streets in New York, a US citizen has the right to walk on the streets of America with no fear. They have the right to go to college campuses, go to class and not fear. We will restore that. I started working on antisemitism on college campuses in 2017 because even then there was a rise of antisemitism on college campuses, we must force the people off those campuses and frankly-
Lester Holt (27:34):Senator Scott, thank you. Let me-
Sen. Tim Scott (27:35):… out of our country.
Lester Holt (27:36):Let me turn to the governor DeSantis here. What do you think about what he just said?
Gov. Ron DeSantis (27:40):I was the first presidential candidate to say if you are here on a suit and visa as a foreign national, you’re making common cause with Hamas, I’m canceling your visa and I’m sending you home, no questions asked. Second, I have friends here in Florida who their kids do not feel safe even going to university campus at all, outside of the state of Florida. You have Jewish students fleeing for their lives at Cooper Union. Joe Biden should have the Department of Justice on these college campuses and holding the universities accountable for civil rights violations, you should not have money going to these places. I already acted in Florida, we had a group students for Justice of Palestine. They said they are common cause with Hamas. They said, we’re not just in solidarity, this is what we are. We deactivated them. We’re not going to use state tax dollars to fund jihad, no way.(28:33)And what is Biden doing? Not only is he not helping the Jewish students who are being persecuted, he is launching an initiative to combat, so-called Islamophobia? No, it’s the antisemitism that’s spiraling out of control. That is what we have to confront. And as president, I can tell you this, we are not going to stand for this on college campuses any longer.
Lester Holt (28:55):All right, Governor, thank you. Let me turn to Governor Christie and considering what he just said, you led a state with a sizable Muslim population last month. As you know, a 6-year-old Palestinian American boy was killed in Illinois by his landlord. His mother was also stabbed more than a dozen times in what has been charged as a hate crime. What do you say to Muslim Americans who are also feeling afraid for their safety, right now?
Gov. Chris Christie (29:19):Lester, I’m the only one in the state who’s actually had experience in dealing with this. I was appointed by President Bush to be the US attorney in New Jersey on September 10th, 2001. And when I took over that job after the September 11th attacks, I had to deal with a situation in our state that was explosive. We’re the most ethically diverse state in this country. And so first, we heard credible reports about Jewish students and synagogues being threatened in our state in the aftermath of 9/11. We made sure that we sent federal agents to those synagogues and we protected them and the same thing should be being done now.
Gov. Chris Christie (30:00):At the very same time, I personally went from mosque to mosque in New Jersey and met with the leaders of those mosques and with the members of the mosques and I said, “The law enforcement is on your side to protect you regardless of your religion if you are going to comply with the law.” And we developed fabulous relationships with Muslim Americans all across the state of New Jersey and we stopped any hate crimes that were going on either against Jewish Americans in New Jersey or Muslim Americans in New Jersey. It takes leadership, Lester, to know how to do this. You must work with both sides. Both sides need to know it, but let us never have a false moral equivalence between Hamas and Hezbollah and the Jewish people. The Jewish people stand for right and justice and Hamas and Hezbollah stand for death.
Lester Holt (30:52):Senator Christie, thank you. Ambassador Haley, what do you say to Americans who are simply afraid right now in this current environment that we’re talking about?
Nikki Haley (31:01):I think you look at the country and the country is all out of sorts. I think look at what these kids are dealing with on college campuses. What makes me so angry is not only do you have the kids barricaded in the library, they said they were going to shoot up the kosher dining hall. You’ve got kids dorm rooms who are being set on fire because they have something related to Israel on their doors. No person should ever feel in danger like this. And this is what I would say about our college presidents is if the KKK were doing this, every college president would be up in arms. This is no different. You should treat it exactly the same. Antisemitism is just as awful as racism and we’ve got to make sure they’re protected.(31:46)And for everybody that’s protesting on these college campuses in favor of Hamas, let me remind you something. Hamas said, “Death to Israel and death to America.” They hate and would kill you too. And the idea that they’re talking about genocide for the Jewish people, that’s not the values of America. That’s not us. We’re better than that. We don’t need to celebrate terrorists, we don’t need to celebrate genocide. We don’t need to celebrate violence towards anybody. We need to go back and soul search in our country and remember what we are about and we are about taking care of people, not going and making them live in fear because some other terrorist activity says they want to destroy them.
Lester Holt (32:27):Ambassador, thank you. Kristen.
Kristen (32:29):Lester, thank you. This is another question for the entire field so you’ll all get a chance to respond, but Senator Scott, I’d like to start with you. The United States has given Ukraine financial and military support since the war began more than 600 days ago. President Zelensky told me on Sunday, if Russia isn’t stopped now, “The price will be higher for the United States,” and Americans would be forced to “send your sons and daughters to defend NATO countries.” Senator Scott, where do you stand on more funding for Ukraine?
Sen. Tim Scott (33:02):I certainly have been very supportive of Ukraine. I believe that ultimately we should make sure that the President of the United States states what is America’s national vital interest in Ukraine. It is actually in degrading the Russian military. We’ve been very effective using our resources and our weaponry and the incredibly high price of Ukrainian blood to achieve that objective. Every day we get closer to the degradation of the Russian military, and that’s good news. But the American people are frustrated that they do not have a president who reminds us and tells us, where’s the accountability? How are those dollars being spent? We need those answers for us to continue to see the support for Ukraine.(33:46)And at the same time, I would say that a package that’s been offered by the president for Ukraine and Israel, that’s the wrong approach. We need to focus specifically on providing Israel with the $14 billion that they need so that we show the world that we are 100% undeniably standing shoulder to shoulder with Israel. And then as we turn away from that direct support for Israel, we should go to our southern border and close our southern border with the resources necessary. I believe that we have sleeper terrorist cells in America. Thousands of people have come from Yemen, Iran, Syria, and Iraq. If we are going to deal with the national security emergency at our border, we have to do it now.
Kristen (34:35):Senator Scott, thank you. But just to be very clear, if you were president, if you were in the Oval Office today, would you sign off on more military funding for Ukraine or would you discontinue it?
Sen. Tim Scott (34:46):Bottom line is we have to first have the level of accountability that allows the American people to understand where the resources have gone, number one. Number two, after we have that responsibility taken care of and accountability, then we have an opportunity to look at the overall strategy that helps us to grade the Russian military while we use our resources. And frankly, keeping our NATO partners safe from the Russian military is absolutely essential. As you understand, Article 5 would require to support and to defend NATO, our troops in the ground. The fastest way for us to eliminate that possibility is for us to destroy possible the Russian military. By doing so, we actually achieve the objective of keeping our military home, and that’s good news.
Kristen (35:34):Thank you, Senator Scott. Mr. Ramaswamy, are you persuaded by President Zelensky’s urgent new plea? Where do you stand on more funding?
Vivek Ramaswamy (35:40):I’m absolutely unpersuaded and I’m actually enjoying watching the Ukraine hawks quietly, delicately tiptoe back from their position as this thing has unwound into a disaster. The first half of this race, I was the only person standing for it. Now, they’re actually quietly coming around to being more cautious as they should. Level with the American people here. Ukraine is not a paragon of democracy. This is a country that has banned 11 opposition parties. It has consolidated all media into one state TV media arm. That’s not democratic. It has threatened not to hold elections this year unless the U.S. forks over more money. That is not democratic. It has celebrated a Nazi in its ranks, the comedian in cargo pants, a man called Zelensky. Doing it in their own ranks, that is not democratic.(36:23)More facts for you that you won’t hear from the mainstream in either party or the mainstream media. The regions of Ukraine that are occupied by Russia right now, the Donbass, Luhansk, Donetsk, these are Russian-speaking regions that have not even been part of Ukraine since 2014, that other people probably couldn’t name those provinces for you. Those are the hard facts. And so to frame this as some kind of battle between good versus evil, don’t buy it. And I’d like the likes of the sharpest of the war hawks on Ukraine, Nikki Haley, to have some accountability and answer. Do you want to use U.S. taxpayer money to fund the banning of Christians? That is actually what’s happening. They’re using the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. They have banned them. The Ukrainian Parliament just did this last week supported by our dollars, and I think you owe it to the American people, Nikki, to at least this one time condemn-
Kristen (37:14):Mr. Ramaswamy, thank you. That’s time.
Vivek Ramaswamy (37:14):… at least to condemn their banning of Christians.
Kristen (37:17):Mr. Ramaswamy, thank you.
Vivek Ramaswamy (37:18):[inaudible 00:37:19] talking on both sides [inaudible 00:37:19].
Kristen (37:18):Mr. Ramaswamy, thank you. We ask the questions. Ambassador Haley-
Vivek Ramaswamy (37:22):Well, she deserves to answer.
Kristen (37:23):… what is your take on more funding for Ukraine?
Nikki Haley (37:28):I’m telling you Putin and President Xi are salivating at the thought that someone like that could become president. They would love to see that.
Vivek Ramaswamy (37:36):The fact of the matter is she doesn’t answer the question.
Nikki Haley (37:38):So this is what I will tell you is first of all let’s remember-
Vivek Ramaswamy (37:38):We’re driving Russia into China’s hands because of these foolish policies.
Kristen (37:39):Mr. Ramaswamy, you had your time to talk. The ambassador has the floor. Ambassador, please.
Nikki Haley (37:45):Thank you. The first thing I’ll tell you is we all remember what that thug did when he invaded Ukraine. We all know that half a million people have died because of Putin, and here is a freedom loving, pro-American country that is fighting for its survival and its democracy. No, I don’t think we should give them cash. I think we should give them the equipment and the ammunition to win. And I’ll tell you, if Biden had done it when they first asked for it, this war would be over.(38:13)But let’s also remember this. When you left Afghanistan in shambles and left them with a ton of weapons and money, it’s not that we left, it’s how we left. When you look at Ukraine, don’t think for a second, now everybody wants to move away from Ukraine, they’ll want to move away from Israel a year from now. America can never be so arrogant to think we don’t need friends. After 9/11, we needed a lot of friends. Now is the time to get partnerships. This unholy alliance between Russia, Ukraine and China is real. There is a reason the Taiwanese want us to support the Ukrainians. It’s because they know that China’s coming after them next. There is a reason Ukrainians want us to support Israelis because they know that if Iran wins, Russia wins. We have to see the combination of the three.
Kristen (39:00):Ambassador, thank you. Governor Christie, what is your take and how long should Americans be expected to help fund the war in Ukraine?
Gov. Chris Christie (39:10):Kristen, let’s remember the last time that we turned our back on a shooting war in Europe. It bought us just a couple of years and then 500,000 Americans were killed in Europe to defeat Hitler. This is not a choice. This is the price we pay for being the leaders of the free world. And the fact is this alliance is not just with Russia and China. Governor Haley knows this. Iran is in the middle of this as well, and so is North Korea and they are all working to support Russia right now. And the reason they’re doing it is because dictators work together. People who believe in democracy work together. We must stand with all of those that are standing up for democracy and freedom in this world.(39:55)And by the way, let’s remind everybody of this. In 1992, this country made a promise to Ukraine. We said if you return nuclear missiles that were part of the old Soviet Union to Russia and they invade you, we will protect you. An American promise that’s 31 years old is no different than American promise that’s made tonight on this stage. We need to stand by it. And those of us who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Vivek Ramaswamy (40:22):I’d like to respond.
Gov. Chris Christie (40:25):And the absolute, the absolute giving in to dictators, which is being suggested on this stage just shows the immaturity of the approach.
Vivek Ramaswamy (40:37):I’d like to respond to that.
Kristen (40:37):Governor Christie, thank you. Governor DeSantis, I’d like you to weigh in on this idea. Are you concerned that this could become a wider war if Putin is not stopped now?
Gov. Ron DeSantis (40:46):Well, any suggestion by Zelensky or anyone else that we’re going to eventually have U.S. troops there, I can tell the American people when I’m president, that will not happen. We are not going to send your sons and daughters to Ukraine. I am going to send troops to our southern border. If you look at the threats that we face, terrorists have come in through our southern border. I’m going to shut it down. I’m going to have the military and I’m going to deport the people who’ve come, particularly under Biden, who’ve come from the Middle East, come from all these places.(41:11)Now, Biden wants $105 billion. 60, most of that’s Ukraine, including some of it going to pay pensions for bureaucrats and salaries. That is a totally ridiculous use of American tax dollars. He says he has money for border to try to do, and the media repeat that. When you look at it, what most of the money is money to process more illegal aliens into this country. How is that solving the problem? That’s making the problem worse. And what does he do for the Indo-Pacific? A pittance. That is the top threat that we face. We need to bring this war to an end. We need the Europeans to step up and do their fair share and we need to get serious about the top threat that this country faces, which is the Chinese Communist Party.
Kristen (41:54):Thank you, Governor. Thank you.
Vivek Ramaswamy (41:56):If I may respond to the Ukraine question.
Hugh Hewitt (41:56):In fact, we are going to go from the hot wars in Ukraine and Gaza and Israel to what many people are calling the new Cold War with China. And I remind the audience that it’s important for our visitors at home to be able to hear you and especially for the people in Beijing to hear you. Many Republicans believe that the Chinese Communist Party and General Secretary Xi is an existential threat to the United States. The flashpoint is Taiwan. For decades and decades, the American military, but primarily the United States Navy has deterred an attack from China to the island state of Taiwan, that Ronald Reagan’s navy of 600 ships is gone. Now the question to you is, and I’ll start with you Ambassador Haley, because you were in President Trump’s cabinet, his goal was a 355 ship Navy. That’s what he pushed for. He got to 300, it’s now at 291. Is that big enough to deter and if necessary, defeat an invasion of Taiwan?
Nikki Haley (42:51):China has the largest naval fleet in the world. They have 350 ships. They’ll have 400 ships in two years. We won’t even have 350 ships in two decades. China has built up their military. It’s not just land, air, and sea. They’re doing cyber, they’re doing artificial intelligence, they’re doing space. America needs to modernize our military. We need to do everything we can. The first thing is you go and you make sure you have the backs of Ukraine. That’s why the Taiwanese want us to support Ukraine because they know that sends the biggest message to China.(43:22)The second thing is we go to China and we start being tough on them. No more sales of our American soil to China and let’s take back what they’ve already stolen. Then you go to the universities. No more having millions of dollars go to our universities. Then we will go and end all formal trade relations with China until they stop murdering Americans from fentanyl, something Ron has yet to say that he’s going to do. And then we modernize our military. When we strengthen our military, when we modernize it with the focus of cyber, artificial intelligence, and space, when we make sure that we have the backs of our friends, whether it’s in Israel, whether it’s in Ukraine, and we should be arming Taiwan. Make sure they have the equipment they need, make sure they have the training they need now. There is nothing China fears more than knowing that America will have Taiwan’s back. Let’s make sure that we show it by making sure they have the equipment they need.
Hugh Hewitt (44:16):Governor DeSantis, my question is specifically about the Navy. It’s at 291. It’s going to go down perhaps as low as 280. Is it enough? And what would you build if you were going to build more?
Gov. Ron DeSantis (44:26):Not enough. We have to have the ability to back up a strategy of denial of President Xi’s ambitions. And if China’s able to be the world’s leading superpower that will affect you and your family in ways that are going to be very bad. They will export authoritarianism all around the world as the cost of doing business. They will impose things like social credit scores and internet monitoring. So this is to this generation what the Soviet Union was to the post-World War II generation. I’ve already released a plan. We’re going to get to 355 ships at the end of the first term, 385 ships at the end of the second term, but we’re going to have a path to 600 ships over the next 20 years.
(45:04)
I think the future of freedom is going to be determined in the Indo-Pacific. We have a strategy, not just military, but decoupling from the economy and fighting them here at home with our cultural. Ambassador Haley said somehow I wasn’t doing. She welcomed them into South Carolina, gave them land near a military base, wrote the Chinese ambassador a love letter saying what a great friend they were. That was like their number one way to do economic development. In Florida, I banned China from buying land in this state and we kicked out on our universities and we kicked the Confucius institutes out of our universities. We’ve recognized the threat and we’ve acted swiftly and decisively.
Hugh Hewitt (45:42):Senator Scott, you’ve been in the Congress since 2011. Defense spending has fallen over that entire period of time. Where are we going to get the money and what would you build and what kind of ships to deter China from attacking Taiwan?
Sen. Tim Scott (45:55):Well, two major problems with the question. Number one, we do not have currently a defense industrial bank to allow us to have the kind of production that we need in order to keep America safe. Frankly, if we are not prepared to fight and engage in three continents at the same time, think about where we are today. In the Middle East, we are in the midst of trying to back our strongest ally. In Eastern Europe, we’ve seen our resources and our weaponry help degrade the Russian military. The Indo-Pacific, we have real challenges. The long-term threat, the long-term threat is China. Immediate threat is our southern border.(46:33)In order for us to have the military to fight three different continents at the exact same time, we are going to have to invest heavily in our military, but we’re also going to have to invest heavily in an industrial base so that we can hit our objectives from a military perspective, not only with our ships, but also with our planes. We are so old as a military that in order for us to recalibrate, we’re going to have to invest. One of the things I do in my Made in America strategy is we create more than 4 million new jobs by having high-tech manufacturing come back to America, decoupling from China so that we focus our attention on creating that industrial revolution that will be necessary for us to achieve the goal of having a military that is ready to be lethal and come home safely.
Hugh Hewitt (47:26):Thank you, Senator. Mr. Ramaswamy, I’m looking for specifics. What would you build? Where would you build it? When would they be in the water? How big would the fleet get?
Vivek Ramaswamy (47:34):First answer is end the toxic divest to invest program. For people who don’t know about that, we’re decommissioning ships in the South China Sea. The foundation of war is economics. Rebuild our defense industrial base at home. But here’s the dirty little secret. Our actual defense industrial base depends on China for the supply chain, for the F-35 jets, for the ships that we’re building. Think about this, why are we stockpiling that if it isn’t to actually be strong against our enemy, China? We depend on them for that, just like we depend on them for pharmaceuticals, just like we depend on them for semiconductors. So here’s why we can’t get tough with China. It’s because we depend on them for our modern way of life and we have to declare economic independence from our enemy.(48:18)That’s the Declaration of Independence that Thomas Jefferson at the age of 33 would’ve signed. And today if you were alive, that’s the Declaration of Independence that I will sign as the next president. I do have to recognize that Ron DeSantis was correct about acknowledging Nikki Haley’s tough talk when she was ambassador to the UN, calling China our great friend, bringing the CCP to South Carolina. What he left out though, Ron, and be honest about it, there was a lobbying based exemption in that bill that allowed Chinese nationals to buy land within a 20-mile radius of a military base lobbied for by one of your donors. So I think we have to call a spade a spade. We need politicians who are independent of the forces that increase our dependence on China.(48:56)My message to Xi Jinping is this, you are done buying land in this country. You will not donate to universities in this country. U.S. businesses won’t expand into the Chinese market until you play by the same set of rules.
Hugh Hewitt (49:06):Mr. Ramaswamy, quick follow up-
Vivek Ramaswamy (49:06):You’re kicked out of the WTO and you actually have to have accountability for the COVID-19 pandemic financially, which unleashed hell on the world. We have to hold them accountable.
Hugh Hewitt (49:16):Mr. Ramaswamy, do you have a number and a plan?
Vivek Ramaswamy (49:20):I think that we need to increase our naval capacity by at least 20% over the course of the next several years and be able to meet our AUKUS agreement standards. Right now, we are at risk of not even being able to meet our AUKUS standards with Australia and the UK. So what we need to do is have a plan that reverses the trajectory of the divest to invest program by 20% over the next three years.
Hugh Hewitt (49:43):Governor Christie?
Gov. Chris Christie (49:45):My first observation, Hugh, is that nobody answers [inaudible 00:49:49]. And my second observation is these three in the middle think they’re the enemy. I know China is the enemy and that’s what we should be focused on. So let’s be really clear. The nuclear submarines in this United States Navy is the greatest deterrent to Chinese aggression, and that is the first place I would go to increase American naval power. Our nuclear submarines are able to move stealthily, quietly, and effectively. And if we are going to deter China from invading Taiwan, the only way we’re going to do it is to make sure that they don’t know whether how many nuclear submarines from the United States of America are in the South China Sea and in that area and ready to strike on them if they decide to move on Taiwan.(50:30)And so we as our first priority, need to go directly to our nuclear sub-program, Hugh, and we need to increase it drastically. That would be priority number one. Ships would come next, but to me the ships are secondary choice here. The submarines are the single most important thing that we could be using to deter China. But the other thing we could do to deter China is to let them know that the blood money they’re spending for Russia in Ukraine right now will not be effective. That we send Putin home with his tail between his legs and make them understand that the same fate waits for them if they decide to move towards Taiwan with a more aggressive nuclear subprogram, we’ll be able to make that threat real.
Hugh Hewitt (51:12):Thank you, Governor. We’re going to take a brief pause now and we’ll be back to the Republican Presidential Primary Debate. Please stay tuned.
Lester Holt (53:34):And welcome back to tonight’s NBC News Republican Presidential Debate. Once again, here’s Hugh Hewitt.
Hugh Hewitt (53:39):Thank you, Lester. We’re going to stay on China and we’re going to talk specifically about TikTok. Last week, Congressman Mike Gallagher, who is chairman of the House Bipartisan Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party, published a long essay on TikTok following the flooding of pro Hamas propaganda under TikTok accounts across the United States. Chairman Gallagher called it, “Shocking.” He called the app, “Predatory, controlled by America’s preeminent adversary, one used to push propaganda and divide America, its spyware,” he said, “A means of surveillance.” Governor Christie, do you agree with Chairman Gallagher? And if so, would you ban or force the sale of TikTok?
Gov. Chris Christie (54:17):I agree 100% with Chairman Gallagher. And let me say this, TikTok is not only spyware, it is polluting the minds of American young people all throughout this country and they’re doing it intentionally. And when you saw what happened in the last few weeks with all of this anti-Semitic, horrible stuff that their algorithms were pushing out at a gargantuan rate, this is China trying to further divide the United States of America. And this is one of the big failings among many of the Trump administration. He talked tough about TikTok. I heard him do it many times, but when it came down to it, he did not ban them when he could have and should have. And now since then, we’ve had an additional nearly six years of this type of poison be put out throughout the United States, even putting aside the spine, which we know is going on in the theft of American personal data and information.(55:21)So in my first week as president, we would ban TikTok. They want to go ahead and sell it, let them go ahead and sell it. But I’ll tell you another reason we would do it. Facebook’s not in China, X is not in China. They’re not permitting a free flow of information to the Chinese people from our social media companies, yet we just open the door and let them do what they’re doing. TikTok should be banned because they are poisoning American minds and I would do it week one.
Hugh Hewitt (55:50):Thank you, Governor. I want to go to Governor DeSantis. Would you ban or force the sale of TikTok regardless of whether or not China allowed American apps to operate in China?
Gov. Ron DeSantis (56:00):Yes, I think that China’s the top threat we face. They’ve been very effective at infiltrating different parts of our society. So my policy on China and the Chinese Communist Party is very simple, we win, they lose. And in order to do that, it’s not just military, it’s economic and it’s cultural. And as the dad of a six, five, and a three-year-old, I’m concerned about the data that they’re getting from our young people and what they’re doing to pollute the minds of our young people. These kids get these devices and they have a mind of their own. And I know a lot of parents are looking, it’s hard to even keep it out. China’s obviously the most extreme, but this is happening with other things. So we are going to do that and we are going to make sure to protect the American people. It’s a full spectrum approach to be able to fend China off. Yes, military deterrence, yes, economic decoupling, but also their role in our culture. If we ignore that, we’re not going to be able to win the fight.
Hugh Hewitt (56:57):Thank you, Governor. Ambassador Haley, speak to the parents out there. There are probably TikTok apps on half the phones in this auditorium.
Nikki Haley (57:03):No, I’m going to speak to the fact that two people hit me and you didn’t let me respond. So let’s first talk about the fact that they want to talk about the Chinese land from 10 years ago. Yes, I brought a fiberglass company 10 years ago to South Carolina. But Ron, you are the chair of your economic development agency that as of last week said Florida is the ideal place for Chinese businesses. Not only that, you have a company that is manufacturer of Chinese military planes. You have it. They are expanding two training sites at two of your airports now, one which is 12 miles away from a naval base. Then you have another company that’s expanding and they were just invaded by the Department of Homeland Security. So mine was 10 years ago-
Gov. Ron DeSantis (57:50):You gave them stuff, I didn’t give them anything.
Nikki Haley (57:51):… yours was six months ago. What’s your story?
Gov. Ron DeSantis (57:53):And I abolished that agency that she’s talking about. Enterprise Florida, we abolished it and of course we banned China from buying land.
Nikki Haley (58:01):He scrubbed the website last week. Go check.
Gov. Ron DeSantis (58:03):Not exactly a great recruiting pitch if you’re banning them from purchasing land. So we stood up [inaudible 00:58:08].
Nikki Haley (58:07):You scrubbed your website last week.