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WSJ Leadership Institute Presents: Leaders
MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2025
10/6/2025 5:00:00 AMShare This Episode
Rolls-Royce CEO Tufan Erginbilgiç Shares His Playbook for Success
Rolls-RoyceのCEO、トゥファン・エルギンビルギッチが登場。
Rolls-Royce CEO Tufan Erginbilgiç reveals how he reinvented a storied 120-year-old brand in one of the most dramatic corporate turnarounds in recent years—and shares the transformation playbook behind it. Recorded June 11, 2025.
- playbook /ˈpleɪbʊk/ （比喩的に）戦略や手順、成功のための計画書
- storied /ˈstɔːrid/ 歴史ある、伝統を誇る、有名な
- dramatic corporate turnaround /drəˈmætɪk ˈkɔːrpərət ˈtɜrnˌaʊnd/ 劇的な企業の立て直し・再建
- reinvigorated / reinvented /ˌriːɪnˈvɛntɪd/ （企業・ブランドを）再生する、刷新する
- transformation playbook /ˌtrænsfərˈmeɪʃən ˈpleɪbʊk/ 変革の手順や戦略書、成功の指針
- shares his playbook /ʃɛərz hɪz ˈpleɪbʊk/ 自分の成功戦略・ノウハウを公開する
Part 1 イントロ＋「変革とは何か」定義
Part 2 小型モジュール炉（SMR）について
Part 3 電動タクシーをやめて原子力を選んだ理由
Part 4 変革の４本柱（Four Pillars） 約70行
Part 5 失敗から学んだ教訓とリーダーシップ哲学
Part 6 終盤の軽いQ&A（運動習慣・AI利用など）
Part 2 小型モジュール炉（SMR）について
Part 3 電動タクシーをやめて原子力を選んだ理由
Part 4 変革の４本柱（Four Pillars） 約70行
Part 5 失敗から学んだ教訓とリーダーシップ哲学
Part 6 終盤の軽いQ&A（運動習慣・AI利用など）
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Transformation: what we were looking to do is really taking a company from point A to point B. In Point B, that company is so different that it can do stuff that it couldn't do at point A. Whether it is capability, whether it is balance sheet strength, whether it is mindset and culture, it is a very different company. So that is, to me, transformation.
Alan Murray: The WSJ Leadership Institute Presents: Leaders. Hi, I'm Alan Murray for this episode. I spoke with Rolls-Royce CEO Tufan Erginbilgiç. He has reinvented a storied 120-year-old brand. His approach led to one of the most dramatic corporate turnarounds in recent years, and he shares his playbook with us. Tufan, you have an amazing story to tell, and I want to get into the story in a minute. But first of all, you also have some news: you have just been awarded a contract by the British government for small modular nuclear powering units. Can you tell us a little bit about what that means for you and the company and for the world?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, absolutely. First of all, great to be here. I think SMR, the UK government, announced it yesterday, and frankly, we have been selected as the winners on SMR. If people are not familiar with it, it is small modular reactors. It is a new technology for the world. We always wanted to be the first mover on that because, if you actually think about our nuclear capabilities, no other company, people don't realize that, no other private company in the world have those nuclear skills, like what we do in UK submarines, nuclear submarines. Four companies do it in the US for US submarines. So we have very vertically integrated capability. So what we are doing, we are taking that capability to SMR, and frankly, we are also working on AMR, advanced reactors, and they are smaller than SMR.
Alan Murray: The WSJ Leadership Institute Presents: Leaders. Hi, I'm Alan Murray for this episode. I spoke with Rolls-Royce CEO Tufan Erginbilgiç. He has reinvented a storied 120-year-old brand. His approach led to one of the most dramatic corporate turnarounds in recent years, and he shares his playbook with us. Tufan, you have an amazing story to tell, and I want to get into the story in a minute. But first of all, you also have some news: you have just been awarded a contract by the British government for small modular nuclear powering units. Can you tell us a little bit about what that means for you and the company and for the world?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, absolutely. First of all, great to be here. I think SMR, the UK government, announced it yesterday, and frankly, we have been selected as the winners on SMR. If people are not familiar with it, it is small modular reactors. It is a new technology for the world. We always wanted to be the first mover on that because, if you actually think about our nuclear capabilities, no other company, people don't realize that, no other private company in the world have those nuclear skills, like what we do in UK submarines, nuclear submarines. Four companies do it in the US for US submarines. So we have very vertically integrated capability. So what we are doing, we are taking that capability to SMR, and frankly, we are also working on AMR, advanced reactors, and they are smaller than SMR.
- SMR (Small Modular Reactor) /ˌɛs.emˈɑːr/ 小型モジュール炉。原子炉をモジュール化して建設・運用を簡易化する新世代技術。
- first mover /ˈfɜːrst ˈmuːvər/ 市場の先駆者・最初に新分野へ参入する企業。
- nuclear submarines /ˈnuːkliər ˈsʌbməriːnz/ 原子力潜水艦。ローズ・ロイスは英国の原潜エンジンを担当。
- vertically integrated capability /ˈvɜːtɪkli ˈɪntɪɡreɪtɪd ˌkeɪpəˈbɪləti/ 垂直統合された能力。開発から製造・運用・保守まで自社で一貫して行う体制。
- take (that) capability to SMR /teɪk ˈkeɪpəˌbɪlɪti tə ɛs.em.ɑːr/ 「その能力をSMRに応用する」。技術の水平展開を意味。
- AMR (Advanced Modular Reactor) /ˌeɪ.emˈɑːr/ 先進型モジュール炉。SMRよりも小型・高効率。
Alan Murray: And are they similar to what you've been doing historically in submarines?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I mean, same technology, different application, right?
Alan Murray: Yeah.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Therefore, when you commercialize that, there's some commercializing sort of risks, but it is the same technology.
Alan Murray: How big do you think this business will be for you?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: If you think about... I always start with a big picture. If you look at the big picture, whether it's supply security, energy supply security, or net-zero, whichever camp you are in today is a little bit gray. But this plays into that really well. I'll say this, and I come from the energy industry; frankly, Europe doesn't have any option. Yes, we can talk about is it good, bad, ugly, but reality is, if Europe wants competitive energy and supply security, there is no choice. The US have some other choices because they have lots of gas and so on and so forth. But Europe doesn't have that, so this actually brings to the whole world that opportunity.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I mean, same technology, different application, right?
Alan Murray: Yeah.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Therefore, when you commercialize that, there's some commercializing sort of risks, but it is the same technology.
Alan Murray: How big do you think this business will be for you?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: If you think about... I always start with a big picture. If you look at the big picture, whether it's supply security, energy supply security, or net-zero, whichever camp you are in today is a little bit gray. But this plays into that really well. I'll say this, and I come from the energy industry; frankly, Europe doesn't have any option. Yes, we can talk about is it good, bad, ugly, but reality is, if Europe wants competitive energy and supply security, there is no choice. The US have some other choices because they have lots of gas and so on and so forth. But Europe doesn't have that, so this actually brings to the whole world that opportunity.
- ネット・ゼロ（温室効果ガス排出実質ゼロ）
Alan Murray: Yeah. What I find fascinating about this is that you took some grief when you first took over Rolls-Royce because the company had invested in electric vehicles, I don't know, helicopters, or whatever. And you said, "Nope, we're not going to do that." You cut it; you stopped it. Explain why you said no to electric but yes to nuclear.
- take some grief /teɪk sʌm ɡriːf/
（口語）批判・非難を受ける。grief は本来「悲しみ」だが、ここでは「人から嫌味を言われる」「責められる」の意味。
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So I think, when we started, one of the... This is my third transformation, frankly. I have sort of four pillars for any transformation. They go in different orders in every transformation, but strategy is in the heart of it. But not only any strategy, it is very granular, actually aligns the whole... A good strategy to me, aligns the organization; it becomes an engagement tool and a performance management tool. So it does all of the above and obviously clearly articulates choices. And when we went through that process to come to your question, effectively, I knew. I look at, it's a simple sort of thinking, really: "What is the market going to be in SMR? Does the world need it?" Absolutely, yes. I just answered that question to you. And even Germany today is talking about nuclear, which itself is a breakthrough, frankly, but... So on electric, that wasn't helicopters; obviously, helicopters exist today. It was the concept of electric taxis. What I've seen is that market is getting pushed to the right all the time.
- granular /ˈɡrænjələr/ （比喩）詳細で具体的な。戦略を抽象論で終わらせず実行レベルまで落とし込むことを意味。
- align the organization /əˈlaɪn ði ˌɔːɡənaɪˈzeɪʃən/ 組織の方向性をそろえる、一体化する。
- engagement tool /ɪnˈɡeɪdʒmənt tuːl/ 従業員のモチベーションや関与を高める手段。
- performance management tool /pərˈfɔːrməns ˈmænɪdʒmənt tuːl/ 業績を管理・評価する仕組み。
- articulate choices /ɑːrˈtɪkjəleɪt ˈʧɔɪsɪz/ 選択肢を明確に述べる、方針をはっきり示す。
- pushed to the right /pʊʃt tuː ðə raɪt/ （時間軸の）右に押される → 計画が後ろ倒しになる、先送りされる、という比喩表現。プロジェクト管理でよく使う表現。
And second thing I've seen, the cost profile was... So the original idea was every taxi was going to cost one million; now it is costing three million. When it is costing three million, it is like, really renting a helicopter. I mean, if you want to rent a helicopter, you can do it today. So there's no obstacle to that, but it cannot be mass market when it is that expensive, frankly. So it was going to the right. It cannot be a mass market, and the regulatory environment for that is a nightmare. Think about taxis flying over London; you need to regulate that. So those were the factors; we didn't think market was going to be big any time soon.
Alan Murray: At the time, some people saw it as a lack of commitment to the energy transition. But you've just proven that's not the case.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: That's not the case. We are doing a lot on energy transition. If you want, we can talk about it.
Alan Murray: Well, we should go into it a little bit. You talked about nuclear, you've also changed your engines to use sustainable fuels.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, I mean, we are the only company who can actually say in aerospace engine that all of our engines 100% SAF compatible. And that's important, because next 20 years that's the only technology that's going to decarbonize commercial aviation, small planes, et cetera. You can make them sort of hydrogen or electric, but actually, when we are talking about sort of narrow-body, wide-body, overseas commercial airlines, SAF is the only solution. So what we did, I think there are two solutions, frankly. You need to improve efficiency, which we did. Our next engine, UltraFan, for the next generation, 10% more efficient than the most efficient engine today in the market. And then second thing made all the engines compatible for SAF.
Alan Murray: At the time, some people saw it as a lack of commitment to the energy transition. But you've just proven that's not the case.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: That's not the case. We are doing a lot on energy transition. If you want, we can talk about it.
Alan Murray: Well, we should go into it a little bit. You talked about nuclear, you've also changed your engines to use sustainable fuels.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, I mean, we are the only company who can actually say in aerospace engine that all of our engines 100% SAF compatible. And that's important, because next 20 years that's the only technology that's going to decarbonize commercial aviation, small planes, et cetera. You can make them sort of hydrogen or electric, but actually, when we are talking about sort of narrow-body, wide-body, overseas commercial airlines, SAF is the only solution. So what we did, I think there are two solutions, frankly. You need to improve efficiency, which we did. Our next engine, UltraFan, for the next generation, 10% more efficient than the most efficient engine today in the market. And then second thing made all the engines compatible for SAF.
- aerospace engine /ˈeəroʊspeɪs ˈenʤɪn/ 航空宇宙用エンジン（ここでは主に航空機エンジンを指す）。
- 100% SAF compatible /wʌn ˈhʌndrəd pərˈsɛnt ˈɛs eɪ ɛf kəmˈpætəbəl/ 100％SAF（持続可能な航空燃料）に対応している。
- SAF (Sustainable Aviation Fuel) /ˈsʌsteɪnəbəl eɪˈvjeɪʃən fjuːəl/ 持続可能な航空燃料。再生資源由来の燃料で、CO₂排出を削減する。
- decarbonize /diːˈkɑːrbənaɪz/ 脱炭素化する、炭素排出を減らす。
- narrow-body / wide-body (aircraft) /ˈnæroʊ ˈbɒdi/・/ˈwaɪd ˈbɒdi/ 単通路機／双通路機。短中距離用・長距離用旅客機の区別
Alan Murray: I want to go back to the transformation because it really is an extraordinary story. I mean for people in the room who don't know you have doubled profit. But you've increased the stock price by what, 700%?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Right now it's 10 times.
Alan Murray: How many?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: 10 times.
Alan Murray: 10 times. In?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: In two and a half years.
Alan Murray: Two and a half years. That's almost unheard of. I mean that's an extraordinary story. Tell us your secret.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Okay.
Alan Murray: How do you do it?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So first of all, I think... First of all, it is transformation. And transformation is a word used very loosely really. Some people call it restructuring transformation. My definition of transformation, and that was our journey, was actually to say... To me, restructuring, we all know, so you have a cost problem, you restructure something, game doesn't change, you may be more competitive, but game doesn't change. Transformation, what we were looking to do is really taking a company from point A to point B. In Point B, that company is so different that it can do stuff that it couldn't do at point A. Whether it is capability, whether it is balance sheet strength, whether it is mindset and culture, it is a very different company. So that is, to me, transformation. Now to do that, you need to change what, and you need to change how in the company. Right?
Alan Murray: That's pretty much everything.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Everything. Absolutely everything, absolutely everything. Because to me, how does transformation happen? To me, transformations happen if you can mobilize the workforce with purpose, focus, and alignment. So I have four pillars to achieve that purpose: focus and alignment. And then you energize the company, right? So if it is okay, we can talk-
Alan Murray: The four pillars.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: -about...
Alan Murray: Yeah.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So I think, I'm going to be quick, because we can be here forever. But I think the first pillar is people. The first thing I did is to look at where the leadership is, right? So you need to establish, everybody counts by the way. I'll come to that, but you need to start with leadership. So leadership, I created a leadership frankly top 100, we changed 50%.
Alan Murray: 50% of the top 100 gone. Did you know up front you were going to have to change 50%?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: No, you never know. But you do know you will have to look at leadership very hard because, first of all, leaders need to be good business leaders, good people leaders. They need to believe extraordinary. That's what I look at, because transformation is about extraordinary. First day you are going to be shocked. In fact, my first presentation was first page on Financial Times, if you remember.
Alan Murray: Not by intent, that was not your goal.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: That wasn't my goal. The goal was for the whole organization. But it is so stark that I'm not surprised it ended up there. But...
Alan Murray: Yeah. Second pillar.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: No, I think on the first pillar also put the mirror up, because underperforming organizations actually stop talking about performance. That means if you are out there, one of the 100 thousand people, all you know is, "Did you deliver your budget, and did you get your bonus?" If both of them are true, the company is doing pretty well.
Alan Murray: You told them they had a burning platform.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: That's correct. That was the Financial Times article. But yes, which was true.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Right now it's 10 times.
Alan Murray: How many?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: 10 times.
Alan Murray: 10 times. In?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: In two and a half years.
Alan Murray: Two and a half years. That's almost unheard of. I mean that's an extraordinary story. Tell us your secret.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Okay.
Alan Murray: How do you do it?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So first of all, I think... First of all, it is transformation. And transformation is a word used very loosely really. Some people call it restructuring transformation. My definition of transformation, and that was our journey, was actually to say... To me, restructuring, we all know, so you have a cost problem, you restructure something, game doesn't change, you may be more competitive, but game doesn't change. Transformation, what we were looking to do is really taking a company from point A to point B. In Point B, that company is so different that it can do stuff that it couldn't do at point A. Whether it is capability, whether it is balance sheet strength, whether it is mindset and culture, it is a very different company. So that is, to me, transformation. Now to do that, you need to change what, and you need to change how in the company. Right?
Alan Murray: That's pretty much everything.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Everything. Absolutely everything, absolutely everything. Because to me, how does transformation happen? To me, transformations happen if you can mobilize the workforce with purpose, focus, and alignment. So I have four pillars to achieve that purpose: focus and alignment. And then you energize the company, right? So if it is okay, we can talk-
Alan Murray: The four pillars.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: -about...
Alan Murray: Yeah.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So I think, I'm going to be quick, because we can be here forever. But I think the first pillar is people. The first thing I did is to look at where the leadership is, right? So you need to establish, everybody counts by the way. I'll come to that, but you need to start with leadership. So leadership, I created a leadership frankly top 100, we changed 50%.
Alan Murray: 50% of the top 100 gone. Did you know up front you were going to have to change 50%?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: No, you never know. But you do know you will have to look at leadership very hard because, first of all, leaders need to be good business leaders, good people leaders. They need to believe extraordinary. That's what I look at, because transformation is about extraordinary. First day you are going to be shocked. In fact, my first presentation was first page on Financial Times, if you remember.
Alan Murray: Not by intent, that was not your goal.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: That wasn't my goal. The goal was for the whole organization. But it is so stark that I'm not surprised it ended up there. But...
Alan Murray: Yeah. Second pillar.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: No, I think on the first pillar also put the mirror up, because underperforming organizations actually stop talking about performance. That means if you are out there, one of the 100 thousand people, all you know is, "Did you deliver your budget, and did you get your bonus?" If both of them are true, the company is doing pretty well.
Alan Murray: You told them they had a burning platform.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: That's correct. That was the Financial Times article. But yes, which was true.
- stark /stɑːrk/ （現実・事実などが）厳しい、はっきりとした、衝撃的な。ここでは「衝撃的で記事になるのも当然」という意味。
- put the mirror up /pʊt ðə ˈmɪrər ʌp/ 「鏡を突きつける」＝組織や個人に現実を直視させる、自己認識を促す比喩。
- burning platform /ˈbɜːrnɪŋ ˈplætfɔːrm/ 危機を認識させる比喩。もともとは石油採掘プラットフォーム火災から「生き延びるには飛び込むしかない」という有名な組織変革の比喩。
Alan Murray: And you don't regret that?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: No, not at all.
Alan Murray: Yeah.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: But I mean, I said to one media, he said, "Isn't that sort of too stark?" I said, "I'll give you the data points; you call it whatever you want to call it." But when you are saying putting the mirror up, you need to tell them the vision and how you are going to achieve that vision, okay? And our strategic goals. You talk about profit, this profit, that, actually we increased profit four times, cash: five times in two years. But actually those strategic goals, like when we delivered this year's guidance, we effectively delivered strategic goals two years in advance. But what are the strategic goals? I won't give you the numbers; that's not the point. Market knows them. But the point is, we actually translated our vision to strategic goals. So they are not a bunch of numbers that somebody came up with. That is how you go, like, this is the vision. We said we are going to create a high-performing, competitive, resilient, growing business. It may come across as cliché to you, but it wasn't because we did external benchmarking. Before I took the job, frankly, I started external benchmarking because I knew I was going to use it. It showed us effectively we are not competitive. We are actually nowhere near resilient; I can't talk about it. And we weren't growing; we were selling stuff, and therefore, we weren't near high-performing. But we then took those external benchmarks. If you are going to be competitive, resilient, et cetera, what are the strategic goals? Then you can measure yourself, right? Rather than one day I show up again and say, "Actually, now we are winning."
Alan Murray: Tufan, I want to make sure people get this playbook because it's an extraordinary playbook. So people hold up the mirror, make the changes.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Second is granular strategy. I can't talk about it, but how you develop it is important. Not in a dark room with consultants, I personally got involved 25, 30 workshops. You make the decisions; even if you are getting out of electric, that decision is made when the head of electric is in the room with lots of data. So once you do that, it achieves two things. But first of all, strategy implementation, you are developing when you are developing strategy. Second, alignment happens immediately. So strategy is... The second pillar is more important but actually feeds everything else. Because my third pillar is the whole mindset and distinctive performance culture I talk about. But unless you have a granular strategy, you cannot create that, is my point. Because we don't have sort of bunch of shooting in there, we have 17 strategic initiatives everybody wants. You can cascade it down to 45,000 people. Think about the power of 45,000 people knowing how they contribute, and they are asked to make a difference because I tell people, "You are the best person for that job. Therefore, you are doing that." Because, frankly, in the workshops today, we can hire anybody. Therefore, if we are giving you that job, you are the best person for that job. So I expect you to make a difference. 45,000 people making a difference is a big thing. And the fourth pillar is pace and intensity. Why pace and intensity? Because when you put this for the company... My first goals, I'm saying two years in advance, we will deliver that tunnel that ended up in Financial Times. Company never achieved that, never imagined to achieve that. So in that environment, my experience, only 15% of the workforce says, "Okay, I'm on board. This feels exciting." Another 85 thinks, "I'm not sure. Probably we did lots of restructuring; this is another one he's going to go anyway. So, heads down, let's see what happens." Pace and intensity, what it does is you put the scores on the scoreboard very quickly, and then believers grow. And once believers grow, then your job is a lot easier.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: No, not at all.
Alan Murray: Yeah.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: But I mean, I said to one media, he said, "Isn't that sort of too stark?" I said, "I'll give you the data points; you call it whatever you want to call it." But when you are saying putting the mirror up, you need to tell them the vision and how you are going to achieve that vision, okay? And our strategic goals. You talk about profit, this profit, that, actually we increased profit four times, cash: five times in two years. But actually those strategic goals, like when we delivered this year's guidance, we effectively delivered strategic goals two years in advance. But what are the strategic goals? I won't give you the numbers; that's not the point. Market knows them. But the point is, we actually translated our vision to strategic goals. So they are not a bunch of numbers that somebody came up with. That is how you go, like, this is the vision. We said we are going to create a high-performing, competitive, resilient, growing business. It may come across as cliché to you, but it wasn't because we did external benchmarking. Before I took the job, frankly, I started external benchmarking because I knew I was going to use it. It showed us effectively we are not competitive. We are actually nowhere near resilient; I can't talk about it. And we weren't growing; we were selling stuff, and therefore, we weren't near high-performing. But we then took those external benchmarks. If you are going to be competitive, resilient, et cetera, what are the strategic goals? Then you can measure yourself, right? Rather than one day I show up again and say, "Actually, now we are winning."
Alan Murray: Tufan, I want to make sure people get this playbook because it's an extraordinary playbook. So people hold up the mirror, make the changes.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Second is granular strategy. I can't talk about it, but how you develop it is important. Not in a dark room with consultants, I personally got involved 25, 30 workshops. You make the decisions; even if you are getting out of electric, that decision is made when the head of electric is in the room with lots of data. So once you do that, it achieves two things. But first of all, strategy implementation, you are developing when you are developing strategy. Second, alignment happens immediately. So strategy is... The second pillar is more important but actually feeds everything else. Because my third pillar is the whole mindset and distinctive performance culture I talk about. But unless you have a granular strategy, you cannot create that, is my point. Because we don't have sort of bunch of shooting in there, we have 17 strategic initiatives everybody wants. You can cascade it down to 45,000 people. Think about the power of 45,000 people knowing how they contribute, and they are asked to make a difference because I tell people, "You are the best person for that job. Therefore, you are doing that." Because, frankly, in the workshops today, we can hire anybody. Therefore, if we are giving you that job, you are the best person for that job. So I expect you to make a difference. 45,000 people making a difference is a big thing. And the fourth pillar is pace and intensity. Why pace and intensity? Because when you put this for the company... My first goals, I'm saying two years in advance, we will deliver that tunnel that ended up in Financial Times. Company never achieved that, never imagined to achieve that. So in that environment, my experience, only 15% of the workforce says, "Okay, I'm on board. This feels exciting." Another 85 thinks, "I'm not sure. Probably we did lots of restructuring; this is another one he's going to go anyway. So, heads down, let's see what happens." Pace and intensity, what it does is you put the scores on the scoreboard very quickly, and then believers grow. And once believers grow, then your job is a lot easier.
- granular strategy /ˈɡræn.jʊ.lər ˈstrætədʒi/ 粒度の高い戦略。抽象論ではなく、実行レベルまで具体的に落とし込んだ戦略。
- alignment /əˈlaɪnmənt/ 組織の方向性の一致、整合性。部門間・個人間で目標をそろえること。
- distinctive performance culture /dɪˈstɪŋktɪv pərˈfɔːrməns ˈkʌltʃər/ 他社とは異なる成果重視の文化。結果を出すことを誇りにする組織風土。
- cascade (down) /kæˈskeɪd daʊn/ （上層から下層へ）段階的に広める、伝達する。
- heads down /hɛdz daʊn/ （疑心的に）黙々と仕事を続ける、様子見の態度を取る。
- put scores on the scoreboard /pʊt skɔːrz ɒn ðə ˈskɔːrbɔːrd/ 目に見える成果を早期に上げる、実績を出す。
Alan Murray: Tufan, you can't have made that much change that quickly without making some mistakes along the way. Can you point to any significant mistakes, things you got wrong in thinking...
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So I think on this transformation, maybe less in the previous two. Absolutely. Because I brought that experience here. For example, one of the things I did in the previous one, and frankly, this one we tried to sort of deal with it, to some extent. In the previous one I thought we left... Because transformation includes restructuring. Yes, we changed the organization; we eliminated some roles because I took two layers out of the organization because what I was trying to do is streamline everything, line of sight. So, while you are doing that sometimes, last time definitely, that was true. We created lots of uncertainty and stayed there. Personal uncertainty is the worst thing. I had a KPI actually, "How many people are personally uncertain at a given time, this time?"
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So I think on this transformation, maybe less in the previous two. Absolutely. Because I brought that experience here. For example, one of the things I did in the previous one, and frankly, this one we tried to sort of deal with it, to some extent. In the previous one I thought we left... Because transformation includes restructuring. Yes, we changed the organization; we eliminated some roles because I took two layers out of the organization because what I was trying to do is streamline everything, line of sight. So, while you are doing that sometimes, last time definitely, that was true. We created lots of uncertainty and stayed there. Personal uncertainty is the worst thing. I had a KPI actually, "How many people are personally uncertain at a given time, this time?"
- line of sight 「現場の人が会社の目標や意思決定の方向性を見通せる状態」
組織の目標・意思決定を現場まで見通せる状態 - KPIで「不安」を測る
社員の心理的安全性まで定量化して管理する革新的手法
KPIは「Key Performance Indicator」重要業績評価指標
Alan Murray: Well, so at Rolls-Royce, I mean how do you change half your leadership team, completely change the strategy and not create massive personal uncertainty?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, we did. I mean, so it is a little bit like Churchill said, "When you're in hell, keep moving." So that's what you do. Sort of, you know it is there. You are going to go fast. Okay.
Alan Murray: How would you describe your leadership style? What are the hallmarks?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I build trust, very important. And that's very, very important for me.
Alan Murray: And you build trust with transparency?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Open transparency and be straightforward. Never surprise people because they want every decision you make, but if you are fair, open, transparent, and there are no games played behind them and be open to discuss anything. Right? I never avoid conflicts. Actually, I say if you see an elephant, elephants, most of the time, unarticulated elephants, are about the leader. That's my experience. So if you don't call them, nobody will call them because... Once you feel they are there, call them, have a conversation and never avoid the conflict. So then you can build a team on trust. So I think that's very important. I'm very clear with direction, priorities, strategic priorities don't change, but we are in an uncertain world. I mean, I don't need to tell you. You need to dynamically prioritize and share that. When we were doing transformation, one of the things a leader needs to worry about is how much is too much to put on the organization. So what I did is, to avoid sort of... For my team, immediate team to understand what good looks like, I would actually come and say, "We are doing now this, in my to-do list, there is this." You should know if you are thinking, "Oh, we are going to be transforming the company with this." No we won't, but it is coming, but we are going to be thoughtful.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, we did. I mean, so it is a little bit like Churchill said, "When you're in hell, keep moving." So that's what you do. Sort of, you know it is there. You are going to go fast. Okay.
Alan Murray: How would you describe your leadership style? What are the hallmarks?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I build trust, very important. And that's very, very important for me.
Alan Murray: And you build trust with transparency?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Open transparency and be straightforward. Never surprise people because they want every decision you make, but if you are fair, open, transparent, and there are no games played behind them and be open to discuss anything. Right? I never avoid conflicts. Actually, I say if you see an elephant, elephants, most of the time, unarticulated elephants, are about the leader. That's my experience. So if you don't call them, nobody will call them because... Once you feel they are there, call them, have a conversation and never avoid the conflict. So then you can build a team on trust. So I think that's very important. I'm very clear with direction, priorities, strategic priorities don't change, but we are in an uncertain world. I mean, I don't need to tell you. You need to dynamically prioritize and share that. When we were doing transformation, one of the things a leader needs to worry about is how much is too much to put on the organization. So what I did is, to avoid sort of... For my team, immediate team to understand what good looks like, I would actually come and say, "We are doing now this, in my to-do list, there is this." You should know if you are thinking, "Oh, we are going to be transforming the company with this." No we won't, but it is coming, but we are going to be thoughtful.
- elephant in the room ˈɛlɪfənt ɪn ðə rum 誰も触れたがらない重大な問題
- hold up the mirror hoʊld ʌp ðə ˈmɪrər 現実を直視させる、自己評価の機会を与える
- dynamic prioritization daɪˈnæmɪk praɪˌɔːrətaɪˈzeɪʃən 状況に応じた優先順位の調整
Alan Murray: Yeah.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So you need to always sort of prioritize, always be clear, always allow the dispute to emerge, because actually the best outcomes come from that.
Alan Murray: Some very quick questions before I let you go. First of all, you already talked about taking out layers of the organization. What's your view of how many direct reports a senior manager should have? Less than 10, more than 10?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I mean it depends on which phase you are in, right? Early phase in transformation, don't have too many, because you will work with them.
Alan Murray: But the end point is?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: You can increase because people...
Alan Murray: Double digits?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Double-digit is fine. I have 10, frankly.
Alan Murray: Yep.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: To answer your question. Double-digit is fine.
Alan Murray: These transformations are very stressful. You look like you're in great shape. What's your fitness regime? Do you do cardio? How do you do it?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I go to gym every morning, including today. And then weekends, absolutely tennis match, and it is like Wimbledon for me. I am intense.
Alan Murray: I'm sure it is. So much going on, a lot of information to keep up with. How do you keep up with it? Do you read books? Do you do podcasts? What's your way of assimilating information?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Great point. Leaders need to look at... So in my office there is a Bloomberg screen. So I am sort of up to date, on the dot. So it's all the news and I actually structured that I can see everything, and then I read a lot, but also I talk to people like you. So I think those things help.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: So you need to always sort of prioritize, always be clear, always allow the dispute to emerge, because actually the best outcomes come from that.
Alan Murray: Some very quick questions before I let you go. First of all, you already talked about taking out layers of the organization. What's your view of how many direct reports a senior manager should have? Less than 10, more than 10?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I mean it depends on which phase you are in, right? Early phase in transformation, don't have too many, because you will work with them.
Alan Murray: But the end point is?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: You can increase because people...
Alan Murray: Double digits?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Double-digit is fine. I have 10, frankly.
Alan Murray: Yep.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: To answer your question. Double-digit is fine.
Alan Murray: These transformations are very stressful. You look like you're in great shape. What's your fitness regime? Do you do cardio? How do you do it?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: I go to gym every morning, including today. And then weekends, absolutely tennis match, and it is like Wimbledon for me. I am intense.
Alan Murray: I'm sure it is. So much going on, a lot of information to keep up with. How do you keep up with it? Do you read books? Do you do podcasts? What's your way of assimilating information?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Great point. Leaders need to look at... So in my office there is a Bloomberg screen. So I am sort of up to date, on the dot. So it's all the news and I actually structured that I can see everything, and then I read a lot, but also I talk to people like you. So I think those things help.
- assimilate information əˈsɪməleɪt ˌɪnfərˈmeɪʃən 情報を吸収・理解・整理する
- on the dot ɒn ðə dɒt ぴったり、即時に、時間通りに（ここでは「リアルタイムで」の意）
Alan Murray: Last question. How many times a day do you consult an LLM, a chatbot, of some kind to answer questions you have?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Not me actually, but my team, I'm sure, does.
Alan Murray: You have people who do that?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, absolutely.
Alan Murray: Tufan, a fascinating story. Great lesson in transformation. Thank you very much.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Thank you.
Alan Murray: Today's episode was produced by Kevin Burke and Anthony Gell; it was edited by Louis Jordan. My executive producer is Lulu Chang.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Not me actually, but my team, I'm sure, does.
Alan Murray: You have people who do that?
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Yeah, absolutely.
Alan Murray: Tufan, a fascinating story. Great lesson in transformation. Thank you very much.
Tufan Erginbilgiç: Thank you.
Alan Murray: Today's episode was produced by Kevin Burke and Anthony Gell; it was edited by Louis Jordan. My executive producer is Lulu Chang.