Editors Note: This article is the second of a two-part Q&A in which filmmaker and aquanaut James Cameron discusses deep-ocean science with researchers at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Cape Cod, Mass. In March Cameron announced the , where scientists plan to use its cutting-edge technology to help further their understanding of life in the oceans trenches. The roundtable discussion with Cameron took place in New York City in April and included:, a Woods Hole deep-sea biologist and lead investigator for the institutionsHadal Ecosystem Studies (HADES) program; , director of Woods Holes National Deep Submergence Facility; , president and director of Woods Hole; and a handful of journalists. Here, Cameron discusses how the era of exploration in the 1960sboth into space and down to the oceans depthsinspired his career as a filmmaker and, later, as a deep-sea pioneer and science advocate. Cameron and Woods Hole researchers also discuss the need for new ways to get young people excited about science, technology, engineering and mathor STEMand the danger of a society in which very few are scientifically literate [An edited transcript of the interview follows.] Why is piloted exploration still important given the availability of robotic subs, especially if those subs are equipped with theDEEPSEA CHALLENGERs advanced technology ? Cameron:I think there are two levels of answer to that. One has more to do with inspiring a nation of young people that tend to be less interested in thethan we used to be as a nation. People are much more inspired at a young age by an in situ human observer. They can relate to that. None of us underestimate the vast value of robotics in this, myself included. Having said that, there are operational advantages to having a pilot right there in the moment that you dont have with a remotely piloted vehicle. I will say [piloting a sub at those depths] does have your attention a little more when youre physically there. Shank:Ive used ROVs [remotely operated vehicles] and[a U.S. Navy-owned piloted deep-sea sub operated by Woods Hole] on missions to the same site. As a biologist trying to get a 3-D survey of a habitat I would do sampling, and we would draw maps of the site using the ROV. Then you go down there with Alvin, and its a whole different terrain, different slopes that you just cant get when youre not there. Cameron:Lighting is also big factor because youre talking about a wide-field sense of the geography and you have to have the lights to punch out that image. Remotely operated vehicles tend to be smaller and tend to have a smaller physical baseline for the lighting relative to the camera. Bowen:I have the conviction that human presence is critical to exploring the ocean. My own personal experience mimics both [Cameron and Shanks] in the sense that we as sensors, if you want to call us that, are still really the best compact unit to explore an unknown environment. In other words, if youre going into a very unstructured, unknown environment, that is not where a robot excels. A robot goes into a space with a specific mission to measure the dimensions of the room or to tell you about the smells or spectral content of a space. Its not possible presently to duplicate all of those subtle factors. Is part of the lack of hadal sea exploration because we havent been able to show people whats there? Cameron:Although the available scientific equipment is excellent, I think there has not been enough emphasis placed on imaging from an outreach standpoint in the past. This means lighting, wide-field photographythe things that give you that sort of overall perspective. The problem has been lighting these depths so that they can be seen. [Lighting rigs] usually sap the subs power. But I like to light things up like a stadium, because I know that its the film [documenting the expedition] thats paying for the science. Any science that we do is paid for by funding from the film, so theres going to be a lot of wide-field imaging as well as the stereoscopic imaging. The film has to be 3-D, something you can put in a theater as opposed to television. For the trip to Challenger Deep, the money to fund the filming paid for the ship time, although it wasnt enough to pay for the DEEPSEA CHALLENGER itself. What inspired you to explore and document the deep ocean? Cameron: Well, lets set the way-back machine for the 1960s when I was about 10I was born in 1954. At my most impressionable age, I was surrounded by feats of exploration, some of it being done by Woods Hole Oceanographic, which for me was the cool place. They had Alvin, which came online in 1964. I related to space exploration and deep-sea exploration the same way, which was as a science fiction fan. The penny dropped for me when I was about 15 and I realized, well, Ill probably never go to another planet, but I can sure as heck go into the ocean. I can learn to scuba dive. I was living in a landlocked place, 450 miles from the nearest ocean, so I learned to scuba dive basically in a pool. I scuba dived in creeks and rivers around my house in Canada. I later scuba dived all around the world. Part of my inspiration for my movie The Abyss was a quick piece of B-roll taken of thethat ran on the news in 1986, about a year after the Titanic was discovered. It was that image of Jason Jr. in a test pool, probably in Woods Hole, whirring around. From the moment I saw it, it was love at first sight. The sound was turned off, and I dont even know what the program was, but I knew instantly what it wasit was a flying underwater camera, and I wanted one. Things happened pretty fast then. By 1988 Id written The Abyss and come to Woods Hole to see how [marine engineering] was all done. I was going to simulate it all in shallow water. I needed ROVs, and we were going to pretend we were deep, even though it was filmed in only 60 feet of water. We created a false ocean floor and everything. In the process of that, I got hooked on the engineering because we had to build a lot of things for ourselves, including camera systems, diver propulsion vehicles, underwater lighting and so on. The next stage was in 1995 when we went to Titanic. I met with the Russians that operate the Mir submarines. I knew Alvin was booked solid and I wouldnt get anywhere near it, but the Russians were hurting to get the subs in the water because theyd lost state funding. It had just crashed and burned in 1991. So I met with them in 1992 or 1993, and I realized that this was a system available for lease. And it was perfect because there were two of them. I put the camera on one, and Id have a sub in the picture. I wound up doing seven expeditions with the Russians and making 55 dives in the Mirs. In the course of that we built all kinds of new thingscameras, lights, robotic vehicles and so on. A lot of that stuff was precursor technology to what went into the DEEPSEA CHALLENGER. In the process I realized that its really hard, its really challenging, and its really fun. On the other hand I also learned that there is zero forgiveness in the ocean. You build a piece of technology for filmmaking and it breaks down, and you do another take. If it breaks down in the ocean, youve probably lost it or killed yourself. I love the engineering, and I love the exploration, and I love the imagingand they all come together in the Venn diagram. And I love the science. Im just curious although I dont pretend to be a scientist. Is it still possible for young people today to be inspired in the way you were? Cameron:Look, I think we all know what the situation is. I sat on a NASA advisory council for three years right about the time after the Columbia crash, and everybody was wringing their hands and bemoaning the fact that we werent putting out enough engineers, we werent putting out enough scientists, there werent enough people coming into NASA, what can NASA do about it? Its the same thing in the ocean community, except NASAs got a bigger budget. Culturally, kids today arent as inspired by exploration, and I just think its something that we have to work harder [to promote]. Back in the 60s it was easier. The stuff was all happening anywayit was all around us. Now we have to make it sexy and interesting, and we have to empower kidsand I say kids because I think these decisions are made when youre eight, nine, 10, 11 years old. By the time youre in high school with all the peer pressure and the career pressure, if youre not hooked on the passion and curiosity of building things and figuring out how things work and figuring out how nature works, its going to be almost too late, although a good teacher in high schoola good mentorcan really change the way you view the world. Avery:Theres no real conduit in middle school and high school to study ocean science. Physics, chemistry and biology dont really have it because the oceanand the atmosphere, for that matterare very complex systems. Getting students interested in an undergraduate science curriculum is a real challenge. Shank:One way were trying to improve science and discovery is to make them part of exploration. On my HADES cruise to the Kermadec Trench in February well be conducting tele-presence that students can get involved in from their classrooms. They will be able to hear the scientists talk about what were seeing and make discoveries when we do. Thats one way to keep students interested, make them part of the process. What are the consequences of poor science literacy in future generations? Cameron:We have to have these exemplars for kids to see that not only havent we explored this planetand certainly theres much to do in space as wellbut theres also so much we need to know in order to operate this world. Because right now were like a five-year-old at the controls of a 747. This planet is a big, complex, intricate system, and were driving it all over the placeand were about to drive it into a mountain if we dont figure it out a little better. The ocean plays an enormous role in all of the climate models, and its the part that we have the least data to plug in. Were not going to solve the challenges of the 21st century by going back to the 20th century. Were going to have to think our way through to the other side, and a lot of the solutions are going to be technology solutions. And a big factor also is, even if youre not a scientist, you need to be scientifically literate to have a democratic process in the 21st century. If you want freedom and democracy, you must understand science. And if I talk anymore, Ill really go off. Anyway, I think you can see that I really care about science and peoples comprehension of it. Followon Twitterand . Visitfor the latest in science, health and technology news. 2013 . All rights reserved.
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